SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey guys, are you ready to transform your mind so you can transform your mind? Coach Wirna brings you one-on-one coaching and expert yet we need to give you the wrong. Because happiness is the progressive realization of a working goal.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

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SPEAKER_03 1:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

I I mean I and I use this in my with my clients in my communities as well, but I believe that there are three pieces to transformation, especially for men. And and I talk a lot, so a lot of this language is gonna be tailored toward men, right? But if you're listening, you're a woman, this is gonna be amazing. It's gonna help you connect with your with your husband and your partner on a deeper level. Yeah, it's gonna be. Yeah, we need to know this stuff. Totally. Totally. Uh the three pieces are are information, implementation, and accountability, right? And so the the big mistake a lot of men make is that they just need information. I just need an I need to read another book, I need to listen to another podcast, I need to watch another YouTube video. Well, that's great. But without inform without implementation, implementing that information, you're not gonna get anywhere. But even then, when you start to implement it, that's only gonna last so long. And you need accountability, which is the third piece. You need a community or mentors, you know. I had five men that surrounded me. And it was so powerful that I created a framework around it called the Iron Five. And a lot of my clients have their own Iron Five. It's the five strategic relationships that help every man to transformation in these different areas. Because for me, it was finances, it was in my marriage, it was in my fitness, it's my emotional health, and my spiritual life.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Welcome to the Transform Your Mind Podcast, where we bring you conversations that transform your mind, improve your health, and help you create the life and relationships you deserve. I'm your host, Life Coach Rennie Young, and today's episode tackles a question so many women ask. Why wouldn't he talk to me? Many women feel frustrated because the man in their lives seems emotionally unavailable, avoid difficult conversations or shut down completely during conflict. But what if this isn't because they don't care? What if they're simply never learned how to process emotions in healthy ways? My guest today is Michelle Michelle, how can I speak? Michelle Osmond, uh leadership coach, speaker, and host of the Dad Nation podcast. After experiencing burnout, emotional shutdown, Michelle rebuilt his life through emotional mastery and now helps entrepreneurs, executives, and fathers become emotionally present leaders at home and at work. Today we're going to explore why men think differently about emotions, how women can foster healthier communications, and what book partners can do to create stronger, more connected relationships. Michelle, welcome to the Transform Your Mind Podcast. Wish I had a live audience. Yay.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Thank you, Myrna. So good to be here today. I'm glad I'm I'm looking forward to having this conversation with you and you're listening.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

Yes, I'm looking forward to it too. You know, I just published um an episode uh for Father's Day on similar topics, you know, how um, you know, how fathers can build better relationships with their children. So this is kind of good. I wish that I could have piggybacked this conversation, but um uh this is good. All right. So as we dive in, Michelle, you often say that you almost lost everything before changing your life. What happened and what was the turning point that made you realize something had to change?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Oh yeah, thank you for asking, Myrna. And and I think um that's a great place to start because a lot of people listening to shows like this can, it's easy to assume that the people talking have it all together. And and I want to be the first person to let your listeners know that that was not me. Uh that was not my story. Uh so real real quick, a bit of the context, the background, you know, I came from a very dysfunctional home. Father was an alcoholic, um, drugs, crime, abuse in my home, you know, were littered throughout my childhood. And, you know, I spent most of my life just convinced that I would become the man that I needed as a child, you know, had this real passion and really kind of thought I had it dealt with and got married um until about three years into marriage. Um, I I'd always been in leadership positions. Uh it made sense to me. I was a high performer. Um, used to that because, you know, I I learned from a young age I had to try and perform for my love, right? So that was a bit of a psychological thing that I worked through. But as a as a result, I just that was sort of my tendency. But three years into marriage, I was let go of my position. No, I was in the uh one of the fastest growing organizations in the country at the time, and I spiraled completely. All right. And so within just a few months, I was, you know, 60 pounds overweight. We were 100 grand in debt. Um, I was drinking every day, just trying to cope with with the life that I had made. Um, me and my wife uh were on the verge of divorce, like it was on the doorstep. Now, our first three years of marriage were tough, don't get me wrong, but but it got real hard once I lost my job. Because as a man, I found a lot of my identity wrapped up in what I do. Right. And and and culture does in a lot of in a lot of senses value a man by what he can produce, what he can provide, what you know what I mean. That's why the second question we always ask each other is men, the first question is what's your name? The second one is what do you do? Right? Really? Um David Ware goes. 100%, 100%. What do you do? Um, and so um, you know, we we the there's two turning points for me, Myrna. Number one was the fight, number two is a funeral. Okay, number one, the fight. So if you can picture with me, I was sitting on the couch in our living room, gray couch, white room, a small little condo, and me and my wife had a huge, huge fight. And it started about money, and it started, and then it spiraled into something else, and something else. And before you know it, it it you know it was yelling, and and and I walked away from that fight that day. And I had a I had a gut feeling. I just knew if I didn't change, that I was about to lose everything that I'd worked so hard for. Remember, keep in mind that I was so determined to become the man that I needed, right? And so the fight was actually about children because I said, hey, babe, I want to have kids. And and when can we start? And because I'm one break generational curse and yada yada yada, right? And she looked at me, she's like, Are you kidding me? There's no sh not a chance for having kids, we're bringing kids into this relationship. It was a real eye-opener for me. And um and so I'd be going out looking for work every day, and I'd be coming home earna, and I'd be sitting in the driveway praying that that this wouldn't be the day that I walked in and found the ring on the counter, you know, and with what Furfee had gone. It was a dark, dark time in my life. Um, overweight, broke, drinking, on the verge of, of course. Um and then I the second part was seven days later. This is the funeral part of the story. I was invited to sing at the funeral of this very wealthy man. He was a philanthropist. There's about 2,000 people in the room. And um and I'm strapping on my guitar and I'm just getting ready to sing the last song in this in this memorial service. And after the minister had spent all this time talking about all this man had done and the people that he'd helped, he asked the congregation a question. He said, Are you living a life worthy of imitation? If you were to die today, would you be proud of the legacy that you left? And Myrna, for me, like I as I was trying to choke out the lyrics to the last song, you know, I knew the answer. As I was trying to sing the song, staring at the casket of this other man, I was faced with the reality that if if this were my funeral today, no one would be saying, I want to imitate his marriage. I want to imitate his bank account, I want to live like he did, I want to, you know, I want to love others like he did. They just would have said, Yeah, he died too soon and he didn't get a chance to turn it back around. Like it was a very visceral moment for me. So that day I went home and I had a conversation with my wife, and and I made a commitment. I said that I I will die to whatever it is that I need to die to to become the man and the husband I need to be, and hopefully the father I need to be for my children one day, should my wife, you know, give me this chance. And within 18 months, I I I I brought in mentors, I hired specialists with about a year and a half, completely turned my life around, paid, um, we paid off the hundred grand of debt, um, lost 60 pounds, rebuilt my body, um, got clean, sober, focused, uh, and then restored my marriage. And then so from that point on, that after that 18 months, because I'd been in positions of leadership my whole life, people saw what was going on, and they would ask me and they would say, Mitch, like what's going on, man? What you know, you're on fire. Would you would you be able to help me? You know, and so I spent the next five, six years walking with other men, building budgets, um, going to the gym, designing training plans, uh, helping them reconnect with their lives. Until one of my mentors challenged me and he said, Mitch, if you really want to take that question seriously, if you really want to live a life worthy of imitation, you need to decide what that looks like for you. What what does it look like for you to commit your life to something that's just gonna give you so much fulfillment and peace? And uh he said, You know what I think you need to do? You need to turn this mess into a message and start a podcast and tell the world your story. So I launched the Dad Nation podcast about two and a half years ago. And within six months, we became, we were up in the top five percent in the world. Um, and then had listeners listen from all around North America and guys reaching out with a similar story as mine. High performing man, career-driven man, just you know, winning network but losing at home. And they were like, Hey Mitch, could you help me? Could you, you know, so that's what I did. I I hired somebody to help me essentially start my coaching business. And I had always been mentoring and I'd always been developing people through leadership positions. So it was something was very natural to me. And I had studied like a madman for almost a decade on performance, um, psychology, relationships, finances, all these different things. And then launched my coaching practice. And a couple years later, here I am today, and that's exactly what I do, Myrna, is I is I help. I mean, I'm a big fan of Ed Milette, and he says this all the time. You are the most qualified to help the person you used to be. And that's what I do. I help high-performing or career-driven men reclaim their home, their health, their happiness without sacrificing their career success. So a lot of my clients are guys who have seen success in business or professionally, but they're struggling personally. Maybe they feel disconnected from their marriage, they feel like roommates, or maybe they've gained 30, 40 pounds, or, you know, maybe they're feeling disconnected from their kids, is you know, that's that kind of thing. That's so that's the work that I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

Well, that's an amazing story. And um, I'm very interested in this conversation. But before I get to um, you know, what is actually the disconnect, because I I don't get it. I can understand where men have a problem emotionally connecting to their their wives if they had trauma, because this this podcast is really about trauma and trauma recovery. And I spend a lot of time with guests about, you know, their childhood trauma. But I don't understand what makes a successful man not be successful at home. So before I get to that question, let's get back to your story. I want to I want to bridge the gap. You lost your job and you're having, you know, a fight with your wife, your five, you, and you were drinking because your identity was in the title, your identity was in the providing. But I don't understand what you changed. Just got I know it's you, I know you're not gonna tell me you just got a job. There is something else that changed in the middle there. What was the bridge? What were you missing?

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah. I I mean, I and I use this in my with my clients in my communities as well, but I believe that there are three pieces to transformation, especially for men. And and I talk a lot, so a lot of this language is gonna be tailored toward men, right? But if you're listening, you're a woman, this is gonna be amazing. It's gonna help you connect with your with your husband and your on a deeper level. Yeah, it's gonna be. Yeah, we need to know this stuff. Totally. Totally. Uh the three pieces are are information, implementation, and accountability, right? And so the the big mistake a lot of men make is that they just need information. I just need an I need to read another book, I need to listen to another podcast, I need to watch another YouTube video. Well, that's great. But without inform without implementation, implementing that information, you're not gonna get anywhere. But even then, when you start to implement it, that's only gonna last so long. And you need accountability, which is the third piece. You need a community or mentors, you know. I had five men that surrounded me, and it was so powerful that I created a framework around it called the Iron Five. And a lot of my clients have their own iron five. It's the five strategic relationships that help every man to transformation in these different areas because for me it was finances, it was in my marriage, it was in my fitness, my emotional health, and my spiritual life. So I looked around my life and said, Who do that I know has the best marriage that I know of? Who's in the best shape? Who's the most jacked guy I've ever met? You know, who's got the most money that I've ever met in my life? And I'm just like legit, Myrna. It was like I just reached out and I said, Hey, I really respect you. And uh and I would love to learn from you because you're living where I want to go, you know, and these men, like my ceiling was their floor, you know what I mean? Like they were living where I wanted to go. And so, and then they they responded. I like that we started, yeah, yeah. We started mentorship, and these guys showed me what was possible uh and then held me to that standard that I set. And so that was the accountability piece, right? And so for me, what changed? Well, it was this desperation, this real honesty of I am and this was a crazy full circle moment, Myrna, because I'm a huge believer in generational cycles. Um, and and I had spent my entire life being determined not to become my father, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:15

But you weren't yet because you didn't have any children, so you're beating yourself up.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

I wasn't, but I was on that path, right? Yeah, you're on the bad thing, you caught it. It's just yeah. As I was singing that song, I was like thinking to myself, you're overweight, you're in debt, you're in a terrible marriage, you know what I mean? You're you're drinking every day. You look a lot like somebody you know really well. And so the crazy thing was, I even even though I tried my best, I I didn't have those other pieces. I didn't have the implementation, I didn't have the accountability, and so I was setting on this trajectory and it felt so impossible to break off. And so that's I think that's you know, the significance of that moment for sure, uh the desperation of it, right? Which is usually what happens with men, but it takes them one uh one um traumatic event to shake them to change. But the other two pieces, like I said, were that accountability and and the implementation, right? So yeah, that was I think for me that's what it was, and um and that's this I've used the same model to help countless other men since there, right? Very hands-on, it's very uh high accountability, high community, you know, strategies, tools, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

So well, I the the the thing I got from that, what you just said, it's not necessarily the uh the knowledge and accountability and implementation, it was the five pieces. Because you talk about Ed Milette. I don't I know him, but I don't really follow his work. But I follow Tony Robbins, and Tony Robbins always says that you have to have, I think his was the seven pieces. And if if if one of like, you know, how many very successful people, which is going to be one of the questions, my next question really, very successful people that are unhappy, right? Because they're only ticking off that one box, right? But you and you mentioned, you know, your relationship with your wife. That is a huge piece of happiness. This relationship comes from 85% of your happiness comes from your your close relationships. So you just talked about that. Who who are who are the people that's in your corner? Um, and uh, you know, fitness. Yeah, if you don't feel well, you can't, you know, Dr. Wendwyer says that. If you don't feel good, you you can't you can't show up. You gotta feel good, and fitness makes you feel good. And spirituality, people don't understand that you've got to be connected to something on outside of yourself. So the five things is is is pretty good, and that's where I was looking for when I asked you the question, because I knew it wasn't just getting a job, right? And you know, that'll make you feel better for like a month and then you'll be right back into the spiral. So let's talk about why exactly this high-performing men um have such struggle with an emotional connection at home. If I were gonna make a stab at it, I'll be thinking that I don't know. I can't even make a stab at it because if I were gonna make a stab at it, I would be saying, oh, because they're bosses at work and maybe there can't be bosses at home, maybe because their wife don't listen to them. I don't know. Tell me what's going on there. That's why CEOs and purpose-driven brands partner with the Transform Your Mind Podcast. When brands partner with the Transform Your Mind Podcast, they're not just buying an ad. They're gaining trusted access to a deeply engaged, values-driven audience that is actively investing in personal growth, wellness, faith, and transformation. So let us tell your story in a way that actually resonates. Your brand is featured through a CEO or expert interview that positions you as a thought leader. Host red pre-roll and mid-roll ads woven naturally into other episodes, and long-term visibility across our full media ecosystem. We distribute every partnership interview across multiple high-impact channels, including 20 podcast platforms and directories, television distribution at PTWN TV, YouTube and streaming platforms like Reveal, social media clips and reels, and a blog article with backlinks to your website. This means your message doesn't just disappear after one episode. It's repurposed, replayed, and rediscovered across multiple platforms. If your brand serves people who value healing, mindset, wellness, faith, and personal development, the Transform Your Mind Podcast offers more than exposure. It offers alignment, authority, and authentic connection. To explore a brand partnership with the Transform Your Mind Podcast, visit us at myhelps.us partner. That is M Y H E L P S dot U S slash P A R T N E R.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

That's a very good question.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

That's the million dollar question. Right. Yeah. Why is it that I am so and legitimately got off a a client call with a client uh yesterday who was like, Why is it that we just started working together? He said, Why is it that I'm so respected at work and I feel like a complete nuisance at home? Right? High performing guy. Well, let me let me unpack I because I think in order for us to answer that question, we have to un unpack our wiring and understand how we're wired and our drivers. Okay. So, for example, um, you know, number one, it's important to understand that men universally struggle with uh their emotions and talking about their emotions, you know. So let's get that out in there and in the opening. If you're a woman and you're listening to this and your man is like a robot and he doesn't talk about how he feels, that's just actually part of the male expression. He's not broken, it's a it's a nature and nurture. But there's a term for this actually, psychologists have coined, and it's called normative male alexithymia, which is a bit of a mouthful. But if you if you Google the word um if you Google it, you'll you'll read all about it. But the word alexithymia, broken down from the Greek is alexythymos, which directly translated means uh to be without words for emotion. So if you put all that together, normative male lexithomia, it's normal for a male to be without words for emotion, right? So when a woman talks to a man and and asks him how he's feeling and wants to connect emotionally, okay, well, we got something to talk about here, right? Because universally, now this is the generalization, it's not there's always exceptions, but generally speaking, most men really feel uncomfortable, even understanding what's going on for themselves, let alone being able to make space for their wives. Now, let me bring up some more statistics, which you would know some of this stuff. Up to 70% of divorces in the uh US today are initiated by the women in the relationship. 70%. In in if you dig into that data in high income households, that number actually jumps to 90%. Nine out of every 10 divorces are initiated by women. Now, let's look at the data, the reasons why. When you look at all the reasons why, 80% of the time, the main reason cited for these up to 90% of women initiating a divorce is not sex, it's not cheating, it's not abuse, it's not kids, it's some variation of emotional disconnect.

SPEAKER_03 24:28

Unavailable, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Emotional unavailable, meaning I married a robot. I didn't feel like his marriages too. Exactly. I didn't, I didn't feel like a priority. He didn't talk to me, he didn't connect with me. So yeah, what do we got here, Myrna? We've got we've got these crazy statistics. 80% of divorces are because of an emotional disconnection. What's the biggest thing men struggle with? Emotional understanding intelligence, right? Connection, all that stuff. Yeah, so uh duh, no wonder that there's this big issue.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

90% of the you're saying they're wired that way, or I'm saying it's a childhood trauma.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

No, it's it's it's a combination of nurture and and nature, right? And so, because I'm gonna talk about the nature piece, the wiring piece, um, but but but let's just acknowledge this for what it is. I think it's important to to to state that. Um, so now we've got something to work with, right? We can say, okay, well, my husband's like this. That's actually that's okay, that's he's not broken, right? Or if a husband's listening, it's like I feel this way, right? But here's the thing, I say this all the time. Your wiring may uh explain you, but it does not excuse you. Okay. We're living in a time and age where we have tools and resources to be able to develop this ability, right? So let's, I mean, now I could talk about the nurture uh piece all day with culture and how it's evolved and all that stuff, but let's talk about the nature for a moment. When we talk about like masculine versus feminine, right? So a man, and I'm talking again, there's always gonna be men who are more feminine and women who are more masculine. Let's just talk about generally speaking, the the the man has a masculine essence, the the the wife or the female has a feminine essence. Now, the drivers of a of a of a man of a masculine essence are accomplishments, are excellence, very purpose-driven, um, very strategic, very analytical, uh, data-driven, right? The driver of uh the feminine essence are things like um emotions, um, intuition, nurturing relationships, you know, like okay, so let's let's let's pull up an example. Uh, I want you to picture, and all of your listeners, I want you to picture a Super Bowl party for a moment, right? And when you walk into a Super Bowl party, men and women, where do you typically see the men gathered at the Super Bowl party?

SPEAKER_04 26:50

Around the TV.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Around the TV, around the TV. Why? Because they're watching some of the best athletes in the world do what they do. Excellence. They're on a mission, they're purpose-driven. It's like, it's it's like we're like moths to a flame, right? Where do you typically see the women at the Super Bowl party?

SPEAKER_04 27:08

Around the food.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Standing around the aisle. I've never been to one, so I can't answer that properly. No, but but standing around the aisle and maybe sipping a glass of wine, catching up with the girlfriends, hey honey, hey Jessica, how how's Jason doing? How are the kids? What are they doing? They're nurturing the relationships, they're connecting on an emotional level. Right? So, this is we just gotta understand, like this is generally speaking, this is how we're wired. So, okay, now that we understand the big disconnect and how we're wired typically, now we think about this. A man's greatest need is actually not to feel loved. It's just crazy. A man's greatest need is to feel respected and to feel competent. Now, Myrna, I've done this before. I've I've been in a room of a thousand men and I've said, Hey, would you rather hear the words I love you or I respect you from your wife? 99% of the room are gonna say, I respect you, right? So that's a big piece, but women are wire completely differently, right? Obviously, respect is they want love, right? We want love, right? Yeah, they want to be seen. My my whole model is I have something called the attraction triangle, which is the uh a woman's three core needs, is to feel seen, to feel heard, and to feel safe. And we can unpack those at another time, but but that's the idea. So so now we got completely different drivers. So a man comes home from work, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

Let's get to that part because she's not disrespecting him, you know. Yeah, he just comes home and anyway. Go ahead, let's hear yourself.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Here is where the rubber meets the road, right? Here's where the tension comes in. So the husband comes home from work and he's been at work. What is he doing at work all day? For the most part. He's working getting solutions, right? He's thinking strategically, he's using that masculine essence to uh provide strategies, you know, fix at the end of the day. So he comes home and his wife has a conversation, and maybe he's talking about the kids are driving her nuts, or maybe she got a fight with her sister or mother-in-law, whatever. What does the husband do? Well, he immediately does what he always does, what he gets paid very well to do, and what he's kind of wired to do is to is to solve, is to bring a solution, is to shove a strategy down her throat, right? And what's the first thing she says? Well, I don't need you. Stop trying to fix this. I don't need you to tell. I just want you to listen. Would you just listen to me for once? You know, but what happens here? What happens here? Okay. Woman's need to feel seen, heard safe, man's need to feel confident, respected. So she all of a sudden doesn't feel seen. She doesn't feel heard, she doesn't feel emotionally safe to share what's going on. Because the first thing the husband does says, Ah, just don't worry about it. Just get over. It's not a big deal. Here's how you can fix it. Get over it, whatever. Like, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_04 29:41

Right. My husband said, It's none of my business. I don't care. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Right. So what you hear is, um, don't why don't you care? Like, you should care. Like, don't you want to protect me? I shouldn't, you know what I mean? And so, what happens then is a wife when she's not feeling seen, hurt, or safe, she starts to potentially say things that may feel disrespectful or make a man feel incompetent. I got it. What's wrong with you? Why can't you figure that out? Well, why are you why are you a robot? Blah, blah, blah, blah, bright, which makes sense because she's hurt. But then what does he feel? He feels incompetent as a husband, and he may feel disrespected. So what happens? Okay, now we got a situation where men think, Well, where can I go to find respect? Where can I go to feel competent? At work, right? So, what happens is men just go back to work and they get more comfortable and more confident because that's where they get respected and that's where they feel most confident, and that's where they get their needs met. Where does a woman typically go to get those emotional nurturing needs met, typically into the children or nurturing other relationships, right? Girlfriends, girlfriends, exactly. So what happens then is this is what we call the drift. And we call we also call this the crazy cycle, where like you got a husband trying to fix it, you get a woman trying to, I don't need you to fix it, right? And so it's just this is this is why. And it's it's not a problem unless you don't understand. Once you understand the drivers and how we're wired, then it makes sense. And so what I do, Myrna, is create systems and frameworks for men to help see past their wiring and to help connect with their wife on an emotional level, right? So, for example, I talked about that attraction triangle, the the need to feel seen, heard, and safe. So, all three of those needs can be broken down. Anyways, I just teach men about the core needs of their wife and then how to flip that switch when they come home so that they're not going into fix it mode, so that they're learnt learning that the most important thing that they can do when they get through the front door is to just to not check their emails, to not walk past their wife, but put the phone down and make a deposit emotionally to connect with her on an emotional level. And then everything else comes after. The kids come after a lot of the emails come after whatever. But like that singular transaction is huge. What are you doing in that first five minutes when you get through the door? And how are you connecting with your wife on that deep emotional level? So if she feels seeing her safe, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 32:11

Yeah, that makes so much sense. But I will tell you that, yes, uh, as women are in trouble, because how many people are going to be going to your program?

SPEAKER_02 32:22

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 32:23

Because I am I'm going through, you know, my experiences, and uh that is exactly it, you know. Um, yeah, men don't seem to, you know, know to express themselves if you ask them how they're feeling. They're not even really in touch with their feelings. But you're right, uh the alpha male is driven to um to achieve and to be great at work and to get respect. And and we all know we have to respect them. And I love what you said. I mean, they're thinking she's not disrespecting him when he walk in, but I understand where you're saying now because yes, if she's not feeling seen or heard, or she thinks he's broken or unemotionally available, that so many of them are, then she might start saying things that hurts his feelings. And that's where the disrespect comes in. So I I I understand um better now, but wow, but that was great for me um uh to learn um to understand that.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Yeah. Can I give you a couple more simple things there? What was that? I'll give can I give you a couple simple um uh practical things that they can do, husbands can do and wives can do to sort of bridge this gap? So, one of the first questions as a husband, if this is something that's new to you and you and you feel like I don't even know where to start, you know, when when it comes to connecting with my wife, I don't even know how to stop providing solutions. One one simple question that you can ask is when you come home and your wife starts talking about to you about her day, number one, she's she's giving you her heart, right? She's she's she's saying, Hey, can I trust him with this? I want to tell him about my feelings, because you know, this can this emotional connection is like oxygen, you know, to a woman's soul, right? And so the one simple question a man can ask is whenever his wife starts talking, simply just say, Hey, hey, hold on a second, babe. Um, before we jump too far into this, is this something where you want me to help you fix it? Or is this are you just wanted to listen? All right, okay, you let me know. Because here's what this does. It simultaneously says to his wife, hey, I'm listening. So it checks off that oh, he hears me. He sees me. That's great. It's a great psychological sign. But for the man, it turns it into a mission. It's like, okay, game on. What do I need to do? Okay, well, I just want to she just wants me to listen. Sweet, pressure off. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna walk in. Or if she says, I actually, you know what, babe, I do want you to fix it. All right, let's go. I'm gonna provide a solution. But just one simple, simple question can change that trajectory, that conversation where where all of a sudden what would have been, well, I don't need you to fit why you blah blah blah. And then he feels disrespected and it turns into a flight, it mitigates all that. Right. Because then she gives him the instructions on how to respond. Right. And him by asking that question tells her that he's invested. Second thing um you can do is is when you start to get to that place where you're having this conversation and you're learning to connect. We talk about um that the man's need to feel uh respected and competent, and and the wife's need to feel seen, heard, and safe. Um a beautiful thing you can do is have a conversation. I get this. I when I explain the breakdown of those three needs of a woman to a man, um I usually get the man to go to have a conversation with his wife. Maybe they want to go out on a date, pour up a glass of wine, put the kids down, whatever, and say, hey honey, what does it make what does it look like to make you feel more seen in our home, in our relationship? And let her answer. Right? What is it what does it look like to make you feel more heard? Where what are areas where you don't feel like I'm hearing you? And lastly, what is it what does it look like to make you feel more safe with me, with us, in our home, whatever? And and I say this all the time, she's giving you the playbook. She is the coach, she's telling you exactly what she wants. So take notes, write it down, and follow through. Turn it into a mission, right? Now on the flip side, he gets all that information. That's awesome. If a woman can say to her husband, honey, what is it, what does it look like to make you feel more competent as a husband, as a father, you know, as a as a leader, what does it look like to respect you? Or how have I disrespected you in the past? What are things that I do that make you feel disrespected? Right? And and and and honestly, and and share that in a safe place where you both swear that you're not gonna get defensive, you make a deal. Um, but that's that's the idea. And and if if a wife can have that approach with this husband or with her husband, and a husband can have that approach, or my mission is to meet your three needs, and her mission is that it's a your your marriage can transform you know in a week, right? If you if you're intentional about that. And I say to women that I say this to women all the time stop telling your husband you love him. It doesn't really mean a whole lot to us. All right. I get into trouble for saying this all the time. He doesn't need to hear it. You know what he would love to hear? And you know, the most powerful thing you can say to your husband is, I believe in you, I think you're incredible. You are a phenomenal reader. I'm so proud of the man that you are, and and I'm so proud of you. That's a good one. That's a good one. You're an incredible father. What is the what is it is communicating respect, it's communicating competency, forget this, right? Right, forget that throw it out.

SPEAKER_04 37:49

We don't need to. Yeah, well, you know, it's it's really interesting, and I know personally, when I wrote my book, my pastor said to me that he was so proud of me. And that was the first time I had a heard a man say that because my father never said that, and now I know it is what what everybody needs because I remember how good it felt for me. So now, you know, even my friend just opened up a school a couple of days ago, and the first thing I said to her, I'm proud of you, because I know how great that feels. So, yeah, saying that to your man is powerful.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

I like that. And he can live off of that one comment for six months, right?

SPEAKER_04 38:33

Yeah, but it's especially if he thinks you mean it, because some people can you know teach you bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

No, but I tell you what, if you start communicating a little bit, but if you think you mean it, yeah. You watch him soften up and all of a sudden want to meet your needs, yeah, right? It's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 38:49

Yeah, you know, hopefully that makes sense. No, it makes a lot of sense. Actually, that's pretty powerful what you said. So the the woman can ask, the man can ask the woman, what makes her feel seen. And um, I bet if I asked, I mean, uh just a couple of days ago, I was having a conversation about the, you know, what um what most marriages have a problem with is communication. This is and you know, and I and I said communication is beaten to debt. Everybody throws it out there, communication and money, but you have to have real communication, not hey honey, what what are you doing tonight or where do you want to go? This is real communication, you know what I mean? This is debt, getting into people's feelings, getting into change. That's what you just talked about. Transformation, because he's asking his wife, she's gonna tell him, then she asks him back, he's gonna tell her, and and then they do it. You know what I mean? Then they have to do it, and that is that is very powerful. I'm gonna try it. Do it, you know, and I'm gonna I'm gonna try it. So uh this is great because I have one of those men that um you know he doesn't like to talk, you know, very unemotionally available. So I don't even bother with him anymore. I just, you know, when I want to talk, I call my daughter.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Well, yeah, but you know what? Try try asking him about his job, right? Try asking him.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

He doesn't want to talk about his job because he says, I do the same thing every day. I still I tried that. I want to talk, he doesn't want to talk about his job. When he comes home, he wants to relax, you know, and um doesn't want to hear me babbling. But exactly.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Here's the thing, right? Like we're not driven by emotions, we're not driven to emotionally connect. And so I'll say a lot of times to my clients, I'm like, your wife wants to talk just for the sake of talking. Like, there's no agenda, they just they just can't connect. And to a husband, that does it just you can see their brain is just smoking because they're like, What do you mean? There's no agenda, there's no final point. What's the point? Right, and so we just are not wired that way. Men are doers, they're not really talkers in that sense. And so I thought, again, caveat, there are some very emotional men and men are very very emotionally intelligent, which is great, but the vast majority of men, this is the way we are wired, and so this is why so much of my coaching is tactical and very, very practical because you talked, you just said it. All we do is we talk about communication and feelings. Well, what does that even mean? Like the moment I start talking about um like using therapeutic language, like we just gotta process and we gotta talk about this. We're gonna sit in a circle, we're gonna, you know, the guys are just like just way over their head, like I have no idea the glaze over, right? So it's like we don't, we don't like men don't want to do that, they want strategies, they want tactics. They what can I do about this? And this is why so much of my work was built up in around frameworks and systems. When your wife says this, this is how you respond. This is the acronym, this is the framework, this is the tool, because that's what we need at the end of the day. We don't want to sit around in a circle, talk about our feelings, right? And so it is is what it is. 90% of the men in my programs have already been through therapy and it didn't work for them because they didn't just sit around and talk. Yes. That wasn't a model that they were comfortable with, right? Right, right, right. And I said, Hey man, here's the attraction triangle. Here are the three core needs of your wife. She needs to feel seen, her safe, and here are here's how you can do that. Her need to feel safe is broken up into four quadrants. She needs to feel emotionally safe, relationally safe, financially safe, and physically safe. Okay, here's how you meet those four points of safety, and they eat it up because they're like, Oh, I can do something with this.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

Yeah, because they like to do, yes, they're doing so. That's why they like strategies, and they're like, that's actually pretty good. Yeah, I like that. So, um, you said about men are wired a certain way, and you you talked about nature versus nurture. So, how does childhood programming um fit in to um uh these family dynamics and cultural expectations? And you know, you does your program help change these patterns?

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Oh, yeah, 100%. I've got something called the mindset matrix, um, which is in my um third module that deals with your emotions and your psychology. But the mindset matrix is this three three-dimensional look on why, like how you think or why you think the way you do, how you think, and really kind of extracting some of those embedded beliefs. And and the three-dimensional look is the past, the present, and the future, right? And so we look at the past, okay. Well, what what happened? What where where were some of these triggers for you? What where were, you know, what was your um what was your in male influence, right? How did he teach you about emotional connection? What does that look like? Did you feel safe, you know, as a young boy, and all these different things? And then the present, what's your current reality? And then, of course, coaching. And that's what I love about coaching, it's always future focused. Okay, now that you understand where you came from and you've and you've kind of given this new, you've re rebuilt it in a way that serves you, you know, and you understand. Who you are now, then let's create a strategic plan as to where you want to go, right? And so the reality is for a lot of men, Myrna, is yeah, we're not wired that way. Um, you know, when I said nature, which is great, is fine. But we've also let's talk about the nurture, like you were just you're just saying, like uh let's think about uh you know, World War II. I mean, we're just a few generations removed from from something like that, which which you know, millions of men came home and and and and saw things that no man should ever see, you know, um, and had no tools really to to process it and to deal with it. And they had the bottle, you know, they had the VA, they had whatever, but like that's about it. And so what they did was they didn't talk about it, right? They stuffed it down because real men don't cry, I mean, just deal with it, right? And so those men raised boys and they didn't model this for them, right? Because they didn't have the tools, and those boys grew up to be men and raised more boys, which is myself and maybe another generation. Um, but we're just like two, three generations removed from extreme, extreme trauma and suppression of our emotions. And so are we wired that way? Yes, we are, because of the like we talked about normative male oxythonia, but then we're also conditioned that way because the vast majority of us have not had a good role model, right? And the reality is mass, and I get in trouble for saying this all the time, but masculinity cannot be taught. It has to be taught. You have you can't you have to catch it. I like that. Yeah, a bunch of right women can't women can't teach men how or women can't teach a young boy how to be masculine. Even men can't teach it, they have to catch it, they have to model it. Yeah, boys have to catch it. Living in close proximity with small, courageous, compassionate men who are you know what I mean? And so that's how they get it. And the vast majority of us of men have never caught a good message.

SPEAKER_04 46:00

No, so this is because in the olden days uh it was not any kind of the men didn't ask their wives. How can I help you be seen? They just they just went to work and brought the money, and that's all they did.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Exactly, exactly, right? And now you got maybe a couple a couple decades in, and now all of a sudden men have to be emotionally aware and and sensitive and and intelligent, which is great tools for us to learn, but you got to remember we come from a long lineage of uh a lack of tools, a lack of resources, a lack of education, and the wiring is just not it's just not natural, and so um that's that's why we find ourselves in this situation, right? But but when we use some of these frameworks like that question, hey, is this hey honey, is this something you you want me to do where you want me to do something about this, or you just want me to listen? Or hey, how can I make you feel more seen, heard safe? And her asking that question about respected and competent, like these are just tools to help you understand the wiring of your husband and the wiring of your wife. That's a good start. That's it's a great start, yes, right? It's a great start.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

And I mean it might be a good idea. And it also makes your husband know that you want the marriage to work, or you you're interested in what he thinks, and it's that's deep, it's psychological. That's deep, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Yeah, well, and it works. It works, you know.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

Um yeah, I I can I can see it working. I told you, I'm gonna try it.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

My when my wife, when my wife says things like, I'm so proud of you, like you're an incredible leader.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

I mean, I'm feeling it. It's a beautiful thing to say, right? Especially if you know she means it.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Yeah. Or to like the the word encourage, the word encourage literally means to inspire courage. So to say to your man something like, You can do this, like I I know you're gonna crush this, is just like, whoo, that puts air in his tank. Like it's it's amazing. Anytime a man says anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

I you know, my husband doesn't do good with compliments, but I I try that. And and I mean when I mean it, you know, because he works very hard at work and he does an exceptional job. And I, you know, I tell him things like that. You know, I'm not sure if I use the word I'm proud of you, but I'm I say that you are, you know, you're exceptional. You um that you do an awesome job and you're built for this job or something like that. Those, you know, but I I understand what you're trying to say. Make them feel real good.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

And here's the thing they may not they may not respond the way you think they should. So if you do something that you say, you say words of encouragement or respect for installing competence, and they don't if they don't gush and be like, oh honey, thank you so much for supporting it. It means the world to me. And they're just like they just kind of like take it and they just don't really process it much. No, it doesn't respond. But that's the thing, you but they're hearing right. Yeah, you can't let that throw you off because remember, they don't have that emotional intelligence like you do. So they don't even need to be able to do it. They don't have the words, right? They don't have the words, and they don't know how to express if even if they are grateful, which they are, trust me, they are you will fill their bucket, but they won't even know how to respond. So the worst thing you can do, the button, the worst thing you can do is is is is say something like that, like, I believe in you, you're incredible, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden they don't respond the way you want to. I'm like, what's wrong with you? Why can't you just say thank you? Right? Because that just retracts everything you just said. Happens all the time.

SPEAKER_04 49:23

Well, I might have done that in the olden days, but I don't do that now. Yeah, you know, because I'm accustomed to it. But I want to ask you a question, though. That um, so we're talking about men that are not wired to talk and respond and be they're um unemotionally available, emotionally unavailable, which is the mass majority of them, but there's some that maybe start to talk and then they shut down. So, what is it that women do to make men shut down?

SPEAKER_02 49:54

They talk too much. They talk too much, they talk too much, yeah. And and and I don't mean any dis disrespect by this. I'm using general generalization because they're so invested emotionally, because they love, because they care, because they want to nurture, they want to embrace, they they want to connect emotionally, they talk and they start, and it just goes and goes and goes, and it's overwhelming. It's so overwhelming for a man. And so you you have to just let them sit and just let them just slowly draw them out, and it's excruciating for a woman who has this a level of emotional intelligence. It's it's painful. But at the end of the day, what happens is we say, Okay, we're gonna help them, we're gonna help them, but then we just kind of start talking and going and going, and then what happens is he gets overwhelmed and he didn't even know where to begin and he shuts down, right? Yeah, the very fact that he even attempted is huge. But then what happens is women come in and sort of stomp all over it, kind of in the way that a husband brings a solution that you're not looking for, it's the same kind of thing. It's like you asked me to talk, but then you just talk a lot, and now I die, I don't know. I there's no space for me, right? Wow, wow, that's good. My husband tells me that all the time. I need to shut up exactly, right? And so that's a sign that maybe maybe you've just been talking a little too much. Yeah, that's right. And that's not I don't mean any disrespect to any women.

SPEAKER_04 51:13

No, it's not disrespect. Listen, we're here to learn, right? We're having a conversation about men.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

It's because it's your wiring and and it's beautiful, the feminine is beautiful, and the masculine is amazing. And when they're both operating in tandem like they're supposed to, it's it's it's incredible. And and when your children get a beautiful combination of the assertiveness, of the drive, of the logic, of the uh the mission that of uh of the masculine, but also the the intuition and the a connection and the warmth and the nurturing of the feminine together. Oh, it's amazing. That's why we call a stable. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 51:52

Yeah, those are in um uh their those type of homes are in short demand. They're there's not a lot of them. Um awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, I enjoyed this conversation because I love talking about men, I love understanding how their mind works. Um, it's my favorite thing to do is to talk about men and and and how they're different and how we can connect with them. And so this was a great conversation. So tell us about your Dad Nation podcast. Do you interview guests or is it solo print? Is this if it's solo, um, tell our listeners how they can connect with you after this interview, your website and your your coaching programs, things like that.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'm just um I mean, thank you for asking, and I really appreciate it. Um, my my podcast is called the Dad Nature Podcast, and this is what we talk about in every single episode. So it's bi-weekly. So one week I do solo teaching, the next week I bring in an industry expert or you know, whatever. We brought in neurologists, doctors, famous authors, relationship experts, psychologists, all kinds of stuff. Um, and we talk about everything and anything that would challenge you as a man, as a husband, and as a father. And we get into parenting, you know, relationships, marriage, fitness, business, money, like literally everything that would that would cause a man any way that he would want to grow. You know, it's it's powerful. And uh, so that's the podcast. And again, the same thing, it's very tactical. There's a there's a powerful framework in every single episode that I teach because again, it's all about what can I take away from this, what can I do, right? Um, and then I'll tell you what, a free gift that I'd love to give your listeners is uh just something called that framework that I just talked about, the attraction triangle. Now, if you just go to dadnationco.com forward slash triangle, and I'll give you the link that you can put in the show notes. But it's it it's this model broken down. Your your wife's core three core needs to feel seen, to feel heard, and to feel safe. And again, even in those three, there's quadrants, right? And so it very much explains if you can understand these three pieces. Oh my goodness, it's she will feel I've had women email me personally, like after their husbands have learned this and been like, Thank you so much. I don't even know who this man is anymore. You know, like he's amazing. So yeah, if you go to that, uh link and you can put it in the show notes below, it's my free gift to you just for just listening today. Um, and then yeah, the the coaching piece, I do group coaching. Um, it's called the high performance husband accelerator. And what men do is they sign up for 12 months and we journey together for an entire year. It's mentorship, it's like what we just talked about information, implementation, and community or accountability. Sorry, it's all those three pieces. I've got a training program, program in there, there's bi-weekly group coaching calls, and there's accountability. And we spend 12 months mentoring these guys and they just turn it all around. They lose fat, they pack on muscle, they turn their marriages around, they become confident, they see business breakthrough because they're showing up more powerfully on a personal level. And so, yeah, I mean, honestly, if you just Google Dad Nation or Google my name, you'll find me. Um, and then just I'd love to connect. If you're listening to this and you're uh you're a man and you're like, oh man, that feels like you you've been preaching my language, like you've been in my head, then let's have a conversation. Be happy to jump on. If you're listening and you know a man, which is 100% of you, um send on the podcast, all right.

SPEAKER_04 55:25

Yeah, that's great. I can think of a few people I'll be sending this to. So is your website dadnation.com? Yeah, sorry, dadnationco.com. Yeah. Co. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

Yeah, dadnationco.com. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:37

All right. So I will uh, you know, have a um article on my conversation with Mitch on the my show page, which is myhelps.us, and I will have the link to the free gift, um, his website. And what are your social media handles?

SPEAKER_02 55:57

Just add dadnation co if you go on co-ho. That's where I hang out a lot. You can find me on LinkedIn and Facebook too, but I'm not I'm not there a ton. My Instagram is the big one that I'm that I'm on and YouTube as well. So everybody should be in Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

That's where I hang out the most too. Okay, all right. So yeah, so I will I will link out to your Instagram handle and your website. And um, thank you for offering the free gift. Um, yeah, because this is powerful. We you know, we're saying it's dad nation, but it's really wife nation, communicating, you know, communicating, having better husbands, having better relationships. And yeah, the um the family benefits, you know, the the nucleus of the family benefits because yeah, we get rid of those 80% of divorces. So yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 56:49

Uh yeah, I and I um I would say, Myrna, you know, if you don't mind me jumping in here, you're exactly right. And I wanted to jump on what you just said, uh, you know, how everyone benefits. I I say this in in the beginning of every single podcast episode. When the dad gets better, the whole family wins. And I say another sentence as well that this is not just for the men, this is for the women, the children, the and the generations to come. Because when a father steps in and gets these tools and resources and chain and improves his marriage and raises his kids in a loving, healthy home, man, then those kids grow up because they caught this. They caught it. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 57:26

I got that from you, and I'm gonna use it. Yeah, you can't teach, you they gotta catch it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Yeah, yeah. Masculinity can't be caught, or it can't be taught, it must be caught. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:36

Yeah. I was just having a conversation about this just yesterday. Um, you know, with my son-in-law. Um, amazing. All right. Well, listen, um, what a powerful conversation. And one of the biggest takeaways for me is that emotional connection isn't just about being having a better marriage, it's about creating healthier families, healthier minds, and even healthier bodies. I like that you put that in there. When we understand each other better, we communicate better. When we communicate better, our stress levels decrease, our relationships flourish, and our overall well-being improves. You know, thank you, Mitch Mitchell, for being on the show and sharing your wisdom with us today. And thank everyone that's listening. And if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who could benefit from this conversation. And I know each and every one of you knows someone that you can send this to. I'm sitting here and I will, you know, I will send it off to my inner circle, right? Um, and remember, your greatest transformation always begins with transforming your mind. So, Mitch, thank you for being on the show. Thank you for this amazing conversation. And um, you know, yeah, I will um listen to your podcast too, because as a woman, I can learn, you know, to understand my man better too. So I love it. So as we wrap up, any final word?

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Yeah, no, I would just say um, don't if you're listening to this and you're a a a man and a husband and a father, just know there's a place for you in your family, you know. Uh no matter how far things are gone in your relationship or your, you know, how how far you feel like you've spiraled, there is a way back. Um, and I've I've helped hundreds and hundreds of men restore it. And so don't doubt for a second your significance in the home. Don't doubt for a second your significance as a father and as a husband. It is not too late. And uh, and I love this phrase, you know, this is an old uh Chinese proverb, but a lot of guys say, I think I missed the moment, I think it's too late. That old Chinese proverb says, the best time to plant an oak tree was 20 years ago, the next best time is today, right? So let's let's do it today. Um, thank you so much for having me on the show, Myrna. This has been an honor and a privilege.

SPEAKER_04 59:51

Yeah, yes. Thank you, Mitch, for being in the show. I love it. Like I said, it's one of my favorite things to do. Talk about how we can um have better relationships with men. I love it, and understanding them better. I love it. So thank you guys for tuning in. Until next time, stay healthy, stay curious, and keep transforming your mind. Thank you, Mitch, for being in the show, and um, we will connect. Thanks. Namaste.