SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey guys, are you ready to transform your mind so you can transform your life? Coach WearLap brings you one-on-one coaching and expert guest weekly to get you the problem. Because happiness is the progressive realization of a worthy goal.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Looking for personal growth? Let's do it. Today, brands don't just have an awareness problem, they have a trust problem. People are overwhelmed by ads, skeptical of marketing, and craving something real. So let us tell your story in a way that actually resonates. Brands partner with the Transform Your Mind Podcast because this isn't just advertising, it's a trusted influence. Our audience is deeply engaged in healing, mindset, faith, and personal growth. And they are actively supporting brands that align with their transformation journey. Your brand is featured through a CEO or expert interview that positions you as a thought leader, host red pre-roll, and mid-roll ads woven naturally into other episodes and long-term visibility across our full media ecosystem. Explore brand partnerships.us slash partner. That is m s dot us partner.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Just go to somebody who's a neighbor in your in your community who owns their house outright or owns their rental property outright and is looking for a way to downsize or retire. And you simply create a contract with that person and say, hey, instead of giving you all the money at once, could I just pay you in installment payments? And then you can have an annuity. You can have a retirement plan. And so then I'm able to get in for very little money. Like I did talk about uh my first my first seller finance deal was $500 out of pocket. And it cash flowed day one, and it was a great investment for the seller. They made about $250,000 in interest off of that deal. And I was able to get a cash flowing uh triplex for $500 out of pocket, which was pretty remarkable for me as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Right. So that's infrastructure, the infrastructure you're talking about, um using seller financing as that infrastructure?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah, so really teaching people that there's an alternative way to build wealth. And it's not on relying on infrastructures like we have been, such as banks or institutions or things that have really failed us over and over as the American public. You know, you think of the 2009 uh crisis, housing crisis. That was a bank problem. And yet, you know, something like uh eight million people lost their homes, right? The typical average American lost $70,000 of lifetime earning potential because of that crash. We were all severely damaged. And I don't know about you, but I don't like lending money to anybody who lost me $70,000, you know, 10 years ago. I just I'm not interested. And so this is really taking the system and bucking it and saying, look, we're gonna do things different. We're gonna rely on each other, we're gonna return to a time where trust was at the center of our agreements.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Welcome back to the Transform Your Mind, to Transform Your Life radio, podcasts, and television show. I'm your host, Life Coach Minnie Young. And sitting in the guest here today is Mel Dorman. Mel and I are going to be talking on the topic money, agency, and ethical wealth building. Welcome, Mel. Oh, thank you so much, Myrna. It's a pleasure to be here. You're very welcome. All right. Well, listen, I've got a new name for you listeners, and you're being called Transformers. So I have a question for you, Transformers. What if money matters most when things are not going well? But when time is limited, when care is expensive, when systems fail quietly, and families absorb the cost. Today's conversation is not just about real estate. It's not just about seller financing, which we're going to talk about. It's not even about building wealth. It's about building agency. It's about what happens when you realize that opting out of power doesn't protect you. It just leaves you exposed. My guest today, Mel Dorman, is a financial activist, real estate investor, and teacher of creative ownership. But more than that, she's someone who wrestled deeply with the ethics of money, the psychology of wealth, and the reality of systems that don't always work the way we hope they will. And most of the times they don't. So in this episode, we will talk about money as an infrastructure, not morality, seller financing as a relational practice, wealth building, um, why wealth building, sorry, is psychological, especially for women, which is, you know, most of the group that's on this listening to this show, and how to negotiate, propose, and persist without apology. So if you ever felt tension between your values and your desire for financial security, if you ever tried to opt out of the system but still felt its impact, if you ever wanted more options but didn't know how to build them, this conversation is for you. So let's transform the way we think about money and reclaim our agency. All right. Well, with that intro, I know you want to hear what we're gonna talk about today. So let's dive right in. So, Mel, you said your relationship with money didn't start as an abstract idea, it started as a crisis. When did money stop being theoretical for you and start becoming a question of survival and agency?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Oh, such a good question. You know, after I graduated from college, I I moved to Islam in India to do humanitarian work, and I thought I could sort of opt out of the system and like be celibate of capitalism, if you will. And when I got I like that word. I thought celibate some good work. I can get out of it. And I came back to the United States, you know, living in a third world country, came back to the United States to my first world middle class family, and I was suddenly faced with the recognition that my family was down and out, and I was helpless, and I needed some ways to help my family because my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. So he was the breadwinner of our family, a roofer for 50 years. You know, he was the strong rock of our family, and suddenly he was uh at risk of losing his job. He would require $7,000 a month of home care. And my family had no means, no retirement strategy, nothing at all. So that's really what prompted me to start learning about financial literacy as a way to help my family.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

That's amazing. Did you go right into because a lot of times that people think that okay, in order for me to build wealth, I gotta do two things, either stock market or real estate. So how did you start?

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

So at the time I was actually working in LA County jail as a social worker, processing inmates. So you can imagine, um, you know, just like the the inmates, I had a lot of downtime and I spent my time in the jails studying um and trying to learn how to build wealth. And I stumbled across a book that you might be familiar with, which is Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And it changed life. Yeah, it changed my life. I started to see things through a totally different lens, and it woke me up to the power of real estate as an accessible way to build wealth as an American, and that just sold me.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

I thought so. I thought so. Hey, you gotta go down two paths, you know, either real estate or um uh or uh stocks. And and and real estate is easier because stocks is very hard and you lose your shirt. Yeah, yeah. So well, sorry about your dad. I mean, how old was he when he's um was diagnosed?

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Yeah, so he was only 67 years old, and you know, in the United States, the average lifespan of a male is 75. And so, you know, he he died around 72 years old. And so my family lived really with him for about seven years going through this illness and the slow trajectory of Alzheimer's, as many people know and have suffered from, it is really challenging. And most Americans have about $250,000 when it gets to retirement time, and they're underprepared. And my family was just like them, and we had no means. And so, really, the burden as the youngest in the family, as somebody who just graduated with the lucrative degree of social work, I found myself in quite a paradigm of like, how can I overcome this? And so I dove deep every for a year. I studied real estate in the jails, 20 hours a week, in between clients, just soaking out everything I could and self-educating so that I can gain that financial literacy I needed to be successful.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

That's great. So, what was the first thing you purchased?

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Okay, so I moved it to Portland about a year after that, and I started sending out these what I like to call love letters. So just handwritten notes to my neighbors, really trying to just build connection. And I came across a duplex and it had an out-of-state owner, and they wanted to sell it for their parents. And she was a realtor, so I was up against a realtor as a social worker. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't even know what escrow was, right? Like I was really new. And um she ended up selling it to me for about $330,000 and it appraised for $370,000 and my light bulb turned on. I mean, that's $50,000 of equity. Again, that's what a social work maker makes in a year. I've I've done it, I've figured it out, I'm gonna save my dad. And then I got the call. My sister called me right after closing and let me know my dad was taking a turn for the worst. And that it it just broke me. I I saw I saw him live his whole life, 50 years working hard, doing all the right things, you know, living by the American prescription of just put your head down and do the do the thing. And it didn't work out for him. And so I did something really drastic. I I quit my day job with about $16,000 in my checking account, and I went all in on seller financing.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Good for you. Good for you. I love that origin story. Yes, everybody has an origin story, and it was very interesting to see what you first, you know, whether you started with a rental or but you went right to the duplex. Good for you. You're in right into the duplex. A lot of people don't start that way because you know they're a little bit more, but yes, yeah. I I'm assuming in Portland, Oregon, that the real estate prices are, you know, because you said you bought it for $330, which is really what a single family home sells for, um, you know, in most places. So, but that's awesome. All right. And you rented both of them out or you lived in one. Yeah, lived in one, rented out the other. Um, and and you know, right, right out of the other one. Yeah. So yeah. Which is why people use duplexes because they can do that. But if you're a full fan, if you're a full full-edged investor, then you rent out the whole thing. Awesome. All right, well, I just have to get some background. Let's set the table, let's understand who you are and and how you you you came into, you know, the work that you do right now. So, um uh you describe money as an infrastructure, not a scoreboard. And I'm taking from that where you're saying you're not, you mentioned the number there, you know, 250,000 in the bank when you retire. So that's like a scoreboard. But you know, if you were to look at that as an instrument, what changed would someone adopt with that frame?

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah, so I think you know, money always has this heaviness for a lot of people of like I failed or I passed, like I'm good enough or I'm unworthy. And that's really not what's happening. We're we're subjugated to a system that's just not working for most people. And we keep going through the system because it's all we know, right? We think we need to get a bank loan to buy a property, and that's how we eventually become homeowners and we spend 30 years paying that house off with our time, effort, and energy. And that's sort of what's normal. And what I'm teaching people is an alternative strategy. Instead of going through all those hoops and saving up all that money and all that, just go to somebody who's a neighbor in your in your community who owns their house outright or owns their rental property outright and is looking for a way to downsize or retire. And you simply create a contract with that person and say, hey, instead of giving you all the money at once, could I just pay you in installment payments? And then you can have an annuity, you can have a retirement plan. And so then I'm able to get in for very little money. Like I did talk about uh my first my first seller finance deal was $500 out of pocket. And it cash flowed day one, and it was a great investment for the seller. They made about $250,000 in interest off of that deal. And I was able to get a cash flowing uh triplex for $500 out of pocket, which was pretty remarkable for me as well.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Right. So that's infrastructure, the infrastructure you're talking about, um, you're using seller financing as that infrastructure?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yeah, so really teaching people that there's an alternative way to build wealth, and it's not on relying on infrastructures like we have been, such as banks or institutions or things that have really failed us over and over as the American public. You know, you think of the 2009 uh crisis, housing crisis. That was a bank problem. And yet, you know, something like uh eight million people lost their homes, right? And the typical average American lost $70,000 of lifetime earning potential because of that crash. We were all severely damaged. And I don't know about you, but I don't like lending money to anybody who lost me $70,000, you know, 10 years ago. I just I'm not interested. And so this is really taking the system and bucking it and saying, look, we're gonna do things different. We're gonna rely on each other, we're gonna return to a time where trust was at the center of our agreements and we're gonna create mutual aid. And so it's not about uh, you know, getting one over on anybody or or a win-lose mentality or a transactional moment. It's about building partnerships with real people in your community that are that are mutually beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Yeah, well, that's good. Like I mentioned before we um we hit the record, and I'm the I'm uh I'm also a licensed realtor here in Florida. And um my sister did that. And I was I was very upset with her when she did it because I was her realtor and she found uh for sale by owner and made the same kind of deal with the for sale by owner, seller financing, and she and and she went that way. But um uh but yeah, so but for somebody that's listening, which most of the people that are listening are not into building wealth by doing seller financing. What is some other ways that they can, you know, they can use the same infrastructure that you're talking about?

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah, you know, there's there's some people who want to become real estate investors, right? They want to get in the game, they want to do all that work, but there's plenty of people who just want to lend money on deals and be a passive player, right? To be community financed in a different way. You know, the seller can finance us, but a lot of the way that I was building my portfolio was raising private capital from friends and family for the next down payment. Because when there's not a bank involved saying you can't use other people's money for your down payment, you can actually include everybody in the purchase and make sure that everybody's making money. So for me, it was it was just this big paradigm shift. So for folks listening, really it's about getting out of our comfort zone and deciding do we want to be in the trenches talking to sellers, building these relationships, or do we want to be the person who just has the capital that helps fund these deals and gets a nice passive check in the mail? There's a part for everybody to play, and we can all benefit from this model.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Okay, that's a good idea. That's a good idea because there's one thing I noticed about America is that they have a lot of money. There's some people, there's, you know, some it's it's it's really an interesting system where you know there's a lot of us that's you know down in the bottom, and then there's a whole bunch of people, you know, you look at the Super Bowl and you look at all these games and these whatever. And you I I I went out the other day to um an event and it was extremely expensive and it was sold out. Stop thinking. And I'm thinking that these people are spending money on entertainment, they're spending money on games, there's so they have a lot of money. So um, you're right, you know. Um uh so if they if they have money to lend, you know, and um instead of spending it on these ridiculous things that they there's no return on. So that's a good idea. And you know, and then the person that's on the bottom that's trying to build wealth, you know, go and um, you know, it's a good idea for them to be thinking along those ways because when you write, you go to the bank, the bank is not gonna want to lend you the money. But I like what you say about, you know, you trying to, you know, borrow money from um uh from your family. I was reading something the other day and they were talking about um Motam um when Barry Gordy started. I mean, it's not real estate, but it's still a business where he when he wanted to um invest in his music business, he went and he got money from his family. Um and they're the one that made the deposit, and now they're all millionaires, billionaires, because they got they like you said, he put them into the contract, right? So they got they got paid over the years as the business um uh you know the business got better. So um awesome. All right. So um uh you also say that wealth building is psychological, especially for women. What are women is um actually up against when they try to negotiate, propose, or persist without apology?

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Oh, such a good question, good question. So, you know, as women, we are really conditioned to play small. You know, we don't want to be brave, we gotta do things perfect, we gotta be kind and polite. And a lot of our social conditioning revolves around being contained and being okay and being acceptable. Versus men, they're really taught to scale, to take risks, to when they fall down off their bike to get up. And if they're bleeding, it's okay. If we're bleeding, oh my gosh, something devastated happened. And so it's that social conditioning that as adults, we we have the same relationship with money. Women are afraid of debt, they typically are afraid to take risks, even though we are better at calculating risk and being able to make wise decisions. But that level of perfectionism that's ingrained in so many women is what holds them back from taking action in the first place. And so one of the big things that I do with with my coaching students is I really walk through the psychological underpinnings, the beliefs, the the ways that we limit ourselves internally that stop us from building the reality we want to see outside of ourselves. And it starts with the psychology, the inner work first.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

In today's market, brands don't just have an awareness problem, they have a trust problem. People are overwhelmed by ads, skeptical of marketing, and craving something real. That's why CEOs and purpose-driven brands partner with the Transform Your Mind Podcast. When brands partner with the Transform Your Mind Podcast, they're not just buying an ad. They're gaining trusted access to a deeply engaged, values-driven audience that is actively investing in personal growth, wellness, fate, and transformation. So let us tell your story in a way that actually resonates. Your brand is featured through a CEO or expert interview that positions you as a thought leader. Host red pre-roll and mid-roll ads woven naturally into other episodes, and long-term visibility across our full media ecosystem. We distribute every partnership interview across uh multiple high-impact channels, including 20 podcast platforms and directories, uh, television distribution at PTWWN TV, YouTube and streaming platforms like Reveal, social media clips and reels, and a blog article with backlinks to your website. This means your message doesn't just disappear after one episode. It's repurposed, replayed, and rediscovered across multiple platforms. If your brand serves people who value healing, mindset, wellness, faith, and personal development, the Transform Your Mind Podcast offers more than exposure. It offers alignment, authority, and authentic connection. To explore a brand partnership with the Transform Your Mind Podcast, visit us at myhelps.us slash partner. That is M-Y-H-E-L-P-S.us P-A-R-T-N-E-R. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Because we were taught to, hey, you know, um go get married and find the husband, and then the husband is going to provide. You know what I mean? That's a psychology I was raised on. But you know, I was always very independent and want my own money, and I've always actually been the one that's the money builder in most of my relationships. But um uh there's another way to go with that question, which is where I was thinking of, is that um uh let's say that um uh you saw that property, right? And uh you go and knock on the door and a man opens it, right? And he says, you say, Hey, I would like to do business with you. Yeah, you're coming from a a perspective of this guy saying, I I don't want to do no business with no woman. So that's what I wanted to. This is what I thought you were going to go with the answer to that. How do they negotiate and how they persist without apology? How do they let people know that I'm just as qualifier or better than a man?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yes. You know, we actually have a really competitive edge as women. We're very relational. We we have high emotional IQ. We're we're attuned to the other person. And part of that's a trauma response of the patriarchy and whatnot. But it's our competitive edge too. And so, you know, for me, what I've noticed is as I go into, you know, arrangements where it's it's a man's world, if you will, I'm underestimated, right? They don't think I know what I know. And because of that, I'm able to structure the deal so seamlessly they think they're getting one over on me. And I'm really just structuring it so that we both win and they have no idea at the end, right? So it's it's actually a competitive edge to be underestimated, is what I've found. And I just allow it. Let them think that they are so superior to me. Let them feel competent, let them feel strong. Because at the end of the day, I'm designing something that really works for them and it just also works for me as well.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Good job. Good job. So yeah, you're studying, you know, uh the jail system paid off because you know what you're doing. But what happens if they don't even want to engage in the conversation? You're talking about writing up the contract. What happens if they just dismiss you right off the bat?

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah, yeah. You know, one of the things I like to teach my coaching students is resiliency, right? This is a numbers game. If you're trying to find one seller who has alignment with your values, who wants to do a long-term partnership with you, give you a great interest rate, a loan-down payment, you know, an interest-only payment so it cash flows day one. That takes time. That takes effort, that takes discipline and showing up every day and, you know, cold calling and door knocking and sending out letters and being persistent to meet a thousand people before you get that real yes, and knowing that it's just a numbers game. And every no is one no closer to the yes that you're looking for. And so it's really about resilience. It's about training ourselves to have a relationship with failure that isn't afraid of failure, but recognizes that failure is what comes between us and success. We have to fail over and over and over until we find what we're looking for, until we develop the skills and the competencies to succeed.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

That's a good answer. That's a good answer. You're right. Um, because you know, a lot of times people will say, Oh, I tried everything, and you're right, you just knocked on three doors. I mean, as a realtor, I hate co-calling because when I call and three people told me no, I don't want to call the fourth. But so it's it's it's a mindset thing to think about it. And it's really um interesting. Um, I'm I'm I'm um listening right now to Grant Cardone's book, 10x. And um, he is talking about how he started his realistic career, how he would, you know, leave and at seven o'clock in the morning and and not come back until nine o'clock at night, and he would be seeing, you know, 40 people a day. And he was just he's calling it um uh no no average, just you know, 10x in his, you know, what he wants to do. He said there is some guy that was following him, and he was just shadowing him. And after three days, the guy said, I can't even shadow you. I'm exhausted. And he's not even doing the work. So yes, that's a that's a good thing to put out there, is that yeah, you've gotta be, you've got to be resilient, you've gotta, you've gotta go out and do it. And it's a numbers game. Um, I first heard this when I was um reading uh the book. Um what is it called? The they made a movie on it. But anyway, I always use it in in my mindset because the guy talked about hitting the anvil. You gotta hit that anvil every day, you gotta make 200 calls, you know. Um uh remember the Will Smith movie. Um, anyway, I don't remember the name of the movie, but yeah, he was a stock broker and he was selling stock tips and he just had to pick up that phone. You have to do that phone call, right? And um, and that's what you have to do to win at anything. You're right. You you can't get knocked down the first time someone says, I'm not dealing with a woman.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah. Learn to overcome, learn to find the your people, learn to find the people that naturally connect with you really well and that you can serve through your financial literacy, really.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's just the point of um, they are gonna be out there and you just have to, you know, put the mind you and move on. Because I love the fact that you said it's the law of averages, it's a numbers game, right? If you if you're gonna make two, you said a thousand, nothing is that much, but if you're gonna make 200 uh calls, maybe you might get two, right? 10% gain, right? So yeah, but you've you've you've got to do it. Yep. But it takes a special type of person to push through.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Yeah, it takes it takes reps. It's you know, discipline is a muscle. It takes time to develop, it takes, you know, mastery of oneself, uh, recognizing all the thoughts that tell you not to keep going, all the sneaky ways our minds try to convince us that it's not worth pursuing anymore. We have to, we have to tame that mind and really get into the core of our why. Why am I doing this? Freedom, connection, uh, having the ability to spend my time however I want to. Those whys to me are so important that I'm willing to put in the work. And I think most people, if they're in touch with that why, it means enough for them too.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah. To go knock on that out of door. Yes, amazing. All right, love it, love it. So, if a crisis were to hit tomorrow, what would having options look like financially?

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yeah, I mean, I think that's at the heart of financial freedom. And especially when I'm speaking with women, you know, often guys will say, I want $10,000 a month or I want $20,000 a month. But women often just say something like, I want to survive and take care of the people around me. And I'm I'm here to take women from survival to thriving, like to see that vision for themselves and to really understand that it's not just having enough. It's it's seeing money as a tool to change your community, as a tool to change your life and your family and your future, and to not be averse to that impact, to not see it as negative. Um, so for me, you know, having the wealth that I have, I have options. You know, when my dad passed away, I could not take care of him. I was completely helpless. I watched my dad, you know, go through a horrible few years of not having the care he needed. And on this side of things, financial freedom, if my mom was devastated tomorrow, I could take care of her. And it wouldn't be a second thought. And that's the place I wanted to get to, is where I had enough income that it would never be a question of whether I could respond. It's just how much, let me write the check.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Yeah, yeah. And you know, that's basically what Grand Carodone is talking about, right? How the money, the freedom for your family, because people are big in family, whether it's your children, your wife, your parents, you know, even siblings, you know what I mean? Uh, if you've got money to help them, then then you can help them, you know. Um, this wool-me poverty thing. I mean, I don't know who got that started, but you need money to do most things.

unknown 29:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

When you don't have it, it is not a good life, right? Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah. No, I just I absolutely agree. And I think I think in our culture there is a certain um apathy towards money. There's a certain resistance because we've seen it modeled so negatively, right? Just accumulation for accumulation's sake or greed or or exploitation. And we sort of train ourselves to think that's the only way to make money. It's got to be at somebody else's advantage, disadvantage, right? We've got to take advantage of somebody else. And real estate's, you know, we've rot with that. There's so many people that that's their angle, right? Find somebody who's going through divorce that's down and out, take advantage of them. As a soaker worker, that just never resonated with me. That never really, you know, that never really lit me up. And so this side of things, I realized like what did light me up is building long-term relationships, uh, you know, understanding another person's situation, caring deeply. Um, a few weeks ago, one my first seller on that that TED talk that I did about buying a triplex for $500. Um, he his wife got into the hospital. And, you know, I'm dear friends with them. They're they're close people in my life. They're not just my sellers. You know, I was the he let me know I was the only person that sent flowers when she was in the hospital. And she she almost passed away. And it's that kind of level of relationship and intimacy that I see is is is possible in in our communities when we really stop over-relying on institutions and start connecting with real humans.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's a good segue into a question that I have here. Um, what would you say to someone who hoping the system holds because they don't know what else to do? And that is the thing, you know, they're talking about social security is not going to be around. A lot of people, you know, think that, you know, when they retire, they're gonna get money from the government or things like that. So they're hold hoping that the system holds. But if you're going into your 65, 66, and yeah, you don't have money for long-term care and any your social security. I mean, I met a guy the other day, it was really amazing. I was at McDonald's and he was there buying, um, he was he was doing his numbers, right? And we had a conversation and he was bragging, you know, you know, men trying to brag, but he said something really interesting. And then when I repeated what he said to me, people say it's true. He's saying, Oh, I know 10 friends and only is getting $700 a month from Social Security. I don't know how they can live on that. I get $10,000 a month because I get money from Social Security, I get money for my pension. I was in the army, and he's there bragging, of course, probably trying to pick me up or something. But I mean, I didn't believe that people got survived in $700 a month, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Those are the real realities of so many people. Yeah, it's it's really serious. I mean, I saw that as a social worker. I saw people on the margins, I saw how capitalism sort of chews up and eats people and throws them out to the wayside. And we have a we have a form of capitalism that is not people first. It is not community first, it's not about how the system serves us. And so to answer your question, it's like, I wouldn't rely on a system that's built on extraction. I wouldn't rely on a system that's going to just burn you out and make you spend 30, 40, 50 years of your best moments. I'd say, what do you value? Your life? You know, these are your, this is all we have. All we have is our life. Our time is the most precious thing that we have. And the fact that we are sort of trained to trade that for money every day at a at a desk or wherever, it's like that, that's a paradigm shift. That's a paradigm shift. It's it's moving into for me when my dad passed away, it was recognizing that this life is precious and it's short and I want to spend it however I want. And I don't want anybody telling me how to spend my time. I don't want to be under anybody's control. And so for me, it's like the greatest political act that anybody can do as a person who's a person of color or queer person or a woman, the greatest thing that we can do is to gain financial literacy and power. That's how we change the system, as we put the power in the hands of the people who truly care and want to design a different system.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Yeah, yeah, it's true. Um and you know, I like the fact that you say that um capitalism is yeah, because that's basically what we are here. Um uh the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And it's it's not a bumper sticker. It's absolutely, it's absolutely true. You sit around and you wonder, I just mentioned about the Super Bowl and all those people buying stuff, and then there's people that, you know, um uh the elderly that uh, you know, can't afford food because they gotta pay for they gotta pay for their medications. Or, you know, um uh I heard the other day this this um lady was paying $700 a month in rent and somebody bought the property, because again, you're talking real estate. People they don't care about people, they just want to build wealth. So and raise her rent to $1,500 and she was only getting $1,100 from Social Security. So she was like homeless, you know what I mean? So that's what you have. You have the bottom. So if we can start, you know, uh telling people, I mean, again, if you're in the entrepreneurial space, um uh you say you can never be wealthy working for someone. I preach the fact that you you need to get a side hustle, you need to, you know, have a business, you need to be, you know, investing whether it's in real estate or whether it's in the stock market. But yeah, that that that that paycheck is is not gonna no. And you know, you don't even get cost living raises anymore.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Yeah, you can't keep up. Yeah, the system is not keeping up and it's not supporting us. So I I tell people like, nobody's coming to save us. All right. As soon as you the sooner you accept that, the faster you can take action to be the person who changes your own life. Because at the end of the day, no matter where you start off in life, no matter what's happened to you, you're still the most powerful person in your life. You have the most capability to change your social location, your wealth, your relationships, whatever. You are that person with power. And I think most people walk around really detached from that agency. We were talking about agency in this. It's like most people are unaware. They see things happening to them as if they don't have uh an interaction or a play at that. And it's hard because the ego wants to protect us. Oh, that's because my boss is bad, or that's because my mom's, you know, did this to me as a kid, or whatever the story is. But the faster that we can recognize that we are the ones with power and that we have the most um impact on our own lives, the faster we can make the changes to change our own reality.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah, it's almost the same thing that I talk about victims have no power. You can't be a victim. You can't be a victim. You you you've got to feel the power, right? You've got to be able to make the changes and you've got to say, well, you know what, this happened to me, but this is not gonna predict my outcome. Yeah. So let's talk about what you mean when you say agency, right? So, um, how does someone build agency? Because that was part of my intro.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, you know, when I was writing my book, I did some research uh about self-determination, which is this idea of like grit and taking action and having that connection to your agency. And I came across a really interesting diagram that'll try to describe to you. But on one end was really low self-determination. So think about, you know, telling your kid to do their homework and they go take a nap on the hammock and they're like, no way, like no agency, no desire to do it. They're not connected to that why. They don't want to do it. And on the other side, you have somebody that maybe is like you and I. We're doing the work we love. It's energetic. We're we're not waking up going, gosh, I gotta do this. We're like, can't wait to do what we do, right? We're so self-determined, we're so connected to our why. And what most people don't realize is, you know, throughout our adult lives, there's always this carrot and stick mentality, like, hey, if you do good at your work, you'll get a raise. You know, you do something kind for your wife, they're gonna compliment you. And that's a really mediocre version of self-determination. That's like somewhere in the middle. But really, what drives us is getting in touch with that why. Why am I getting up? What do I care about? Who am I individually as a human and what is it that I contribute to the world? And it's hard to do that at a job, right? It's really hard to do that at a job. You might find something that hits all of those parts of your authentic self, but more than likely, you're gonna be just clocking in and trading. And so you don't have that self-determination. And so it's I think getting in touch with that agency is getting in touch with taking actions that are meaningful for you and letting that be your source of renewable energy to use a teacher. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Renewable energy, yes, and be your source, right? Well, yeah, it's the same thing I was saying. Um, right, you you you get the job when you when you don't have anything else to do. You mean you've got to pay the gotta pay the bills, but while you have that job, you are thinking of, you know, what's my next step? How am I gonna build wealth? What is gonna be my side hustle? What's gonna be my business plan? You know, what am I doing? Why am I doing it? You're right. I don't want to be punching a clock for the rest of my life. I want to be, there's a time when, you know, after um Tim Ferris wrote the, you know, the five-hour work week or whatever the book is called, everybody wanted to be in Bali on a laptop. Yeah, so freedom to work from anywhere in the world that you want. So those are the things, you know, why is your why? It could be selfish. It could be, I just want to be, you know, not to be able to punch the clock, or it could be, I want to leave a legacy, I want to, you know, provide for my family, I want to, you know, to be able to provide for my mom and my dad or you know, my elderly parents or my children, send them to college, things like that. But whatever your why is, you're right. Um so that's basically how you build it. I I like that. I like that. You know, you um uh, you know, um uh you can't be mediocre, you can't be average, you've gotta go all out. And that's basically what Grant Cardone's book is talking about. The 10x, you gotta, you gotta go all right out. Like you mentioned earlier, that um uh you don't just you know fold up uh after three people tell you no, you want to.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Of course, of course, everybody wants to. I think that's uh you know, a lot of people are like, oh, I just it doesn't, it's not comfortable for me to talk to people like that. Yeah, me too. You know, like I don't look forward to it either. But um when you train yourself to understand the the impact of those actions and you you keep your eye on the goal of where those uncomfortable moments lead up to, then you can stay connected to that why. And I I think whenever I'm feeling this low energy of like obligation or survival, we sort of a lot of people live in that realm, right? They go to a job they don't like, they date a partner they don't want, they live in this obligation. But the results are when we transcend that, when we get in past obligation to responsibility, to transcendence, to doing something that's beyond myself. And I think for most people, they're they're unable to access that because they're so stuck where they're at. They're so miserable in their own existence that they're not even able to think outside of themselves. And so getting connected to a real why that lights you up, I think is the first step to to really transcending your own your own situation.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

It's really interesting. Everybody has a why. Everybody has a why. It's just you're right. Um, are you willing to do the work? Yeah. Are you willing to push through those uncomfortable moments? Are you willing to like go all out and you know, and um because yeah, a lot of people take average, they take comfort, they think, oh, I don't like cold calls. Who likes cold calls? Who likes knocking on doors? You know, because I was in the sales space, if someone come and knock on my door, I feel so badly for them, you know. I need to talk to them. Yeah, it's a tremendous amount of courage. Yeah, in order to do that. You have to have empathy on the on the other side. So right. So let's dive a little deeper into the seller financing. We just, you know, talk about the surface of it. So you say that seller finance and is is simple, it's a simple concept and radical in practice. Why do you say it's radical? And explain to someone, because we have some time, um, how they would go about, you know, finding the deal, setting it up, you know, give someone some information that they can walk away from this conversation with.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, totally. So I I lay this out too in my book, Bank on Your Neighbor, which is uh free. You can just look that up and stuff, and it'll it'll literally walk you through this entire process. But um basically, you know, the first, the first step is I I send out letters to my community. I do these love letters. Um I send out handwritten, uh, I don't write it, but a machine to us, but a handwritten letter with my message on it that invites a seller to connect with me. And I know who those sellers are because I reach out to a title company or another data source and I find out who has equity because if they're gonna lend to me, they're gonna need to have equity. So that's the most important ingredient. So I find a list from title or or from a company and I send out those letters, and it's just a numbers game. You know, every hundred letters I might get one or two calls that starts a relationship, and I just I try to just meet with them, have a conversation and get to know their goals, get to know them as a human being and really focus in on what is their motivation, where are they trying to get to, what is their dream world. And then I just I collect those clues and I bring them back and I conceptualize them through my understanding of finance. You know, what does that translate to an interest rate? What does that mean for their monthly payment? How long could they hold the note for? I sort of underwrite the deal in my in my own way. And then I present that to them, you know, maybe after three or four meetings of getting to know them, really diving deeper. It's it's it's a relationship, uh, it's a relationship business. So I I joke, it's like you wouldn't want to show up to a first date and propose marriage, right? That'd be very, very awkward, right? That's good.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

So you show up and you get to know them. You find ways that you connect and people like people that like them. And so you just try to figure out what do you have in common? It's it's it's something that most of us do all the time, which is what's so funny. People think it's this really difficult thing. It's just a conversation, it's a coffee. And once you find some alignment, you know, maybe around the down payment size or or how much the monthly payment should be, then I just I simply I present a few options. You know, hey, if you listed it with a realtor, it'd probably look like this. You'd probably walk away with this, and you have to pay taxes and you'd probably walk away with, you know, two thirds of what you're thinking. Um, you could, you know, sell it to somebody all cash, and that'll be even less because they got to have a big margin, they're gonna flip it or whatever. Or you can sell it to me, and I will not only pay you above asking price, but you will make hundreds of thousands of dollars along the way in interest on pre. Tax um earnings. So in other words, they're they're saving that entire time while I'm paying them. If I pay them interest only, they have no capital gains. So it's a huge benefit. It's kind of like a 401k. It's a sheltered, uh, it's a sheltered income for them. And so, anyways, we work out the details uh verbally, figure out what works for us, and then it's like a five-page document. It's it's like a high schooler could write it. You know, I I obviously an attorney does, but it's it's a promissory note, and I love that language. It's a promise, you know, of trust, promissory note. And that lists out all the details. Hey, the interest rate's this, the down payments this, this is when it's due at the end, um, all the details. And then there's a deed of trust. Again, that that relational language, deed of trust. And that trust uh basically just ties the prop that promissory note to a real piece of property. So, in other words, if I, you know, signed that document, I got hit by a bus tomorrow, and you know, sad for me, but does the seller still have recourse? Do they have a way to get the property back? Yes, just like any bank would, they could foreclose. And in Portland, that costs $15,000. It's easier than in an eviction. So it's much safer for a seller to sell on seller financing than to even rent it out as a rental. So um it's it's quite practical. And what's radical about it is that it's built in in trust and in community and mutual aid about partnership. It's not transactional, it's not extraction, it's not, it's not over-relying on these institutions that keep failing us. It's very simple, it's very relational. So it makes it very radical.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

That's that's beautiful. I've never well, I know that um, you know, there's all these people that's talking about buying properties with no money down, and that's that's that's the angle that they're working on. You go and you talk to somebody and you get the property and you got no money down, and and uh there are a lot of people who make millions selling that formula of you know, no m no money down properties, but I've never experienced or never had any information on the way you were doing it. Yeah, so I've got some follow-up questions. So when you excuse me, so let's say you you you find a seller that has an equity, they're living in the property, right? Yeah, they can be produced a rental either way, right? Okay, well, yeah, if it's a rental, it makes more sense. But let's say it's it's a it's a um um, you know, somebody that's living in their property. When you make this deed with them, do it have to move out, or who takes over occupancy?

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Yeah, great question. So, what's beautiful about uh seller financing, creative financing, is everything's negotiable. So it could be it could be as simple as, hey, you know, you're ready to downsize, so I'll maybe give you a few months in the house while you get your things together and and then you'll move to another place and I'll start my payments after that, right? It could be that simple. Or maybe they want to live there for a long time. You know, there's there's something called a life estate where maybe somebody wants to age in place, but they're having a hard time paying their taxes and insurance and things are getting a little tight. Well, as an investor, I might just give them uh an option to buy, right? I might say, I'm gonna buy your property whenever you move out, whether that's because you die or whether that's because you decide you want to move somewhere else. And let's create a price today. What's today's market? I'll pay your taxes and insurance over the next however many years and keep you in your place. And for me, I get the upside of the appreciation for for that waiting, right? So there's so many ways to structure things.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Yeah, that's beautiful. We call that lease option over here. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Yeah.

unknown 47:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Or frozen note. That's another way to uh or a life estate. It can also be formed like um instead of a lease with an option to buy, it's uh it's a life estate. So it's it's really it's it's a frozen note. It doesn't start until the person leaves the house, um, or maybe within six months, however you want to write it. But it just means that the I don't have to make payments on that property until the property's in my ownership and care.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

That's beautiful. It's good information. And you said you you mentioned something about your book. I didn't see it in your bio here. So you've got a book that's called Bank on Your Neighbor.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Yes, yeah. Bank on your neighbor came out this last uh this last fall. And yeah, it's been just an amazing experience rolling that out and educating so many people.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Yes, that's amazing. And all this, all these policies are in there. I picked that up myself.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Yeah, yeah, I went into the details. Unlike a lot of financial book books where they kind of keep it high level, I went into the details to really help people solve these problems.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

That's beautiful. So going back, um uh, you know, again, because my my curiosity, so how did you learn all these things from when you were in the, you know, as a correction officer in the jail reading, or did you actually go and get some formal education and learning how to, or do you have an attorney? How do you how do you write these things up?

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I spent a lot of time listening to bigger pockets, reading books, and kind of get a general understanding of real estate before I jumped in, spent about a year studying. And then um after that, I went to a weekend boot camp um with some friends, and I got about two days of education and they're like, go get it. And um, I went back to Portland and I started a little small group of investors, and we would meet every week and we'd talk about our deals and encourage each other and keep us, you know, moot motivated and in the game. And I was shocked to find out about uh I reached financial freedom in five years. I got uh over six figures, uh bought 34 rental units, and so I went back to that boot camp as a volunteer. I wanted to help other people do it. And I was I was shocked to find out that only about 10% of the people implemented the strategies and it really got my wheels spinning. Like, why? I mean, it was so simple to me. Like, this is gonna change your life, you know. Why would you not act on it?

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Not too many people do are doers, it's not trust me. You said you're a coach. If you're in a coaching space, you know that 95% of people do not make the effort, they just cruise through life. I mean, you I mean, I I've always wanted, you know, dabbling in the investor space myself, right? And I've gone to seminars where they want, I mean, it's probably more now, but they want twenty thousand dollars to teach you how to to to find deals and and do these things. And you know the people pay those twenty thousand dollars, right? And don't do anything with it. Yeah, now they want more.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Yeah, so many. I mean, that's that's why I ended up I started the Solar Finance Academy because I realized the reason I was so successful is I did these practices alongside a bunch of other people. And so the imagination was there, right? Like I saw, hey, my friends sending out hundreds of letters each week, they're starting to see traction. I should do that too. And it it created modeling behavior and possibility. Um, and so you know, it's it's really remarkable to see the student success actually in our program, the people who are really going for it, and they they're able to see um their colleagues make gains that they never thought were possible. And and that sort of feeds off of each other, right? That community again, going back to community is the solution. Community encouragement, yeah, encouragement.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Um and it's not simple, it's very simple to you know go to the bank and get money. And if you don't have money to if the bank wouldn't lend you money, you go to a hard money lender and you get money. But it's it's it's harder to go find a seller that's got equity and and try to make deals. I mean, it's a beautiful way to do it, but it takes work, it takes dedication, and um, and some people would give up because chances are you've got to, you know, knock on a lot of doors before someone says yes. Yeah, because if you're using the word radical, it is radical, right? Yeah, and then there's a lot of trust involved. I mean, that's that's to me is the hardest part. Why would this the the the seller trust you to um pay back, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Or yeah, and I think you know, at the heart of that, one of the things I teach my students is like show up ready and prepared. Show uh I help them create what's called a buyer credibility book, and in bank in your neighbor, it explains how to create this, but show up with everything they would ever need to know about you to feel confident lending to you, right? It help them underwrite the deal, help them see how responsible you are. And if you're still learning responsibility, partner with somebody who is responsible so that they can really back it up and make sure that the deal goes well. You know, this is all built on relationships and it's not just trust. I mean, there are legal ramifications for not paying. The seller will get the property back. So it's just trust. There's a there's a there's a legal bounds and and and sort of an authority there to keep everything moving. But like I it's so powerful when you understand what we're capable of, you know, or what we can do together versus alone.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

I love it, I love it, I love it. Yes, I've got a daughter that's called herself an investor, so we will I will buy her your book. Read it myself, and together we will go build our agency. I love it. I love it. All right, so um, how can listeners connect with you? Um uh you you mentioned um you have a website, social media. Um, I have a I have the title of your book. I will link out to it in the show notes. Um, but yeah, how can people how can listeners um connect with you after this conversation?

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Yeah, you can find me as Mel Dorman on uh most social media, whether it's Instagram, TikTok, that sort of thing. Um the other way is uh you can um check out my website, sellerfinanceacademy.com. You can see what we do there and uh definitely pick up a free copy of the book. Uh that's a great way to get started and really start to just marinate in these ideas and see what's possible.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

So your book is free?

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Yeah, yeah. I actually put it on Audible, uh podcasts, and all the major podcasts. If you just look up bank on your neighbor and you can pick, you know, Apple or Spotify or whatever your preference is, it's completely uh free because I wanted to cut out like Amazon and all those companies. It's like this should just be widely disseminated. I'm not I'm not selling I'm starting a movement.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

That is that is definitely um uh philanthropy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

It was a lot of hard room.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

It's a it's a that is good because I mean I can tell that you know it can change people's lives if they do the work. You know what I mean? It's if they do the work. So wow, I I I loved our conversation, loved it. Um, all right. Well, let me uh you know let you know what I've learned from our conversation today with uh Mel. And I'm hoping that the same thing that you're taking away. Um I that money is not about proving your worth, it's about preserving your options, it's about building infrastructure so that when life gets real and it will, you're not at the mercy of the systems that were never designed with you in mind. Mel reminded us that wealth building isn't just technical, it's psychological, it's relational. It's about becoming someone who can negotiate, propose, and persist without apology. And maybe the most important shift of all, you don't have to choose between ethics and agency. You can build wealth in a way that aligns with your values, you can participate without exploitation, you can create win-win structures, you can build power without shame. And which is what I love about your contracts with the sellers, uh, Mel, it is definitely a win-win situation. Everybody wins. Um, a lot of times when you do these 30, 50-year mortgages, right? The the bank are the ones that's winning, right? Because they sit on it and then if you you miss a payment or whatever, they come take your house and you lose everything. So this is definitely a win-win situation. And that's transformation. Then here on the Transform Your Mind, that's what we do. We examine the beliefs, the systems, the stories that shape our lives, and we rewrite them. So if this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend who needs more options. I've already decided who I'm gonna share this with because I know a lot of people that can take advantage of this, including me, right? So um uh tag us, leave a review, and start the conversation that move you from survival to agency and to thriving. Yeah, you know, Mel, you know, did a um a number there that, you know, people retire with $250,000, but I will tell you that that is still middle class, upper class. A lot of people retire with nothing and they're just depending on social security. So, um uh, yeah, so you've got to, they're telling you now that you need more than a million dollars. I see these these things on um uh that comes through my my inbox that says, why you can't live in a million dollars after you retire. I'm thinking, what? Unless it's invested really well. Yeah, I know. Where who are they talking to? I mean, that must be the 1% of the population that's got a million dollars when they retire. Most people, you're right, you mentioned 250. But yeah, that's still a big number, right? Um yeah, so what they teach you um is to, you know, this 401k journey and you've put it in as soon as you're 20. And, you know, my my granddaughter, you know, she's got investments. She's two. She's got investments because her mother has learned, you know, yeah, she was investing. I told her because I learned the same thing, you know. You know, if you um start investing at 20 and you put money down when you get 65, you'll be a millionaire. Sorry, uh, you have a million, but if you do it that way, you know, the older generation wasn't taught that way. They they grew up where, you know, there they didn't have any extra money, like your dad, you know, didn't have extra no money. You just got to work hard. And when you get the paycheck, it pays the bills. Where you got money for it? Putting 401k and invest in stocks and all those things, right? So this was a great conversation that allowed you to think different than you probably have been thinking. So it's transforming your mind on the on the highest level, right? And hopefully you've got some time to make some changes, right? And you're not 70 or something, even though you still can do something. Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Yeah, we got we got people in their 70s and 80s in our class. So definitely exactly.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

You know, it's it's it's really interesting because I just went through I went through a um uh uh boot camp, it was five days, and um there were 70 and 80-year-old people in there who thinking, what's this what's this world coming to? They're making they're gonna have businesses. They're paying for coaching, $50,000 for coaching. I'm thinking in your 70s and 80s, it's amazing. People think that you're gonna live forever. So they're at 70, they're starting businesses. Isn't that amazing?

SPEAKER_01 59:08

That's so amazing. I mean, I kind of hope I'm I'm doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

Me too. You know, I'm hoping that I'm doing that, but you know, but um I I think it's amazing. So um any last words? Um uh can you lead us out as we as we wrap up?

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Yeah, I I have a really um great quote that I I love from uh Mohammed Yunis, who started the Groming Bank, which has gone on to lend billions of dollars to to women all over the world uh in third world poverty because they don't have access to capital. And he says this beautiful quote that I think about Americans as well, which is the poor are not a financial risk, they're a financial revolution, just waiting to happen if only people would trust them.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

Nice, nice, I like it, I like it. Financial revolution, yeah. Yeah, because if you if you put your mind to it, right? You can be radical, you can be revolutionary, right? Instead of saying, This is my lot, this is how I'm born, and that's I'm gonna die, right? You you make changes, yeah. Um you you make changes because you want to leave a legacy, you want generational increase. That's always been my why. Generational increase. I came from a third world country that was poor, and I came to the United States, Canada, and then the United States, and my why was generational increase.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

So breaking that trauma, breaking that generational trauma. It's beautiful, beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:37

Well, it's been a pleasure. I am glad that I said yes to your request to read an interview. This was great. I mean, I love it when I learn something, and I I have definitely learned from this conversation. I'm gonna definitely pick up a copy of your book and also give it to a lot of people so that they can learn um some of these skills and um and start building wealth in a different way. So thank you again for being on the show. Thank you guys for tuning in to this week's episode of Transform Your Mind to Transform Your Life. Today we're talking about transforming how you think of wealth and how you think of investing in real estate. It was definitely radical. I like that word. So I'm gonna end with that. So thanks again, Mel. Thank you guys for tuning in. Until next time.