SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey guys, are you ready to transform your mind so you can transform your life? Coach Wiggles brings you one-on-one coaching and expert guest weekly to give you the wrong road. Because happiness is the progressive realization of a worthing old. Looking for personal growth?

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Let's do it. The right outfit doesn't just change how you look, it changes how you show up. There's something powerful about the way you show up in the world. That's why I'm excited to share one of my favorite discoveries with you, Quint. Quint is a casual luxury brand priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quint.com slash T Y M for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's q-u-in-c e M for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quint.com slash T Y M. This episode of the Transform Your Mind Podcast is brought to you by Square. As an entrepreneur, I've learned that making it easy for clients to pay you is essential. I personally use Square to accept coaching payments and to collect deposits for my real estate business. And it has been a reliable part of how I run my business. I also love seeing vendors at the farmers market accept credit card payments with their square hardware. The setup is simple. The payments are secure and everything is organized in one place. Right now, listeners can get up to $200 off Square Hardware when you sign up at Square.com slash G O slash transform. That's SQUARE.com slash G-O slash transform. Get started with Square and build a setup that works the way you do.

unknown 2:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Now that you bring up a very, very good point. I want to definitely acknowledge that because that's where a lot of the fear from the patient's aspect comes in as well. When one drug takes a leap, is it because of the data at hand or because of the financial aspect of it? And Rahul and I have been lucky enough to the mentors and the uh the people that we have interviewed, we claim to them the fact that this is going to be a neutral discussion. Because currently, for any current indication, that is stage one, stage two, stage three, stage four, each of the cancers have multiple treatments available. Now, if you have multiple treatments available for one particular cancer in that particular stage, how are you going to decide which is the right option? And that's where what we call patient-shared decision making ties in because you have to review the side effect profile, different dose management. Is it IV? Is it oral? Is it every week? Is it every three weeks? So at the end of the day, whenever we are going to any of these conferences, we are always putting that neutral hat on because that's what we are taking to our patients. And not even that, these conferences are mandated to keep the neutrality tight, even if they have sponsors. At the end of the day, when they're putting up such big conferences, there is their industry partners that they are tying in. But at the end of the day, the core aspect of the education is not anywhere close to touching any of the industry to influence their decision-making process.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Welcome to another episode of the Transform Your Mind Podcast. I'm your host, Mernie Young. And today we're diving into a topic that affects millions of families around the world: cancer care, cancer education, and how we separate medical facts from media hype. Each week, headlines announce breakthrough treatments, miracle drugs, and revolutionary discoveries. Yet many patients and even healthcare professionals struggle to understand what these announcements actually mean in real-world clinical practice. Joining me today are Dr. Ruhit Gussain and Dr. Rahul Gussain, better known as the Oncology Brothers. They're board-certified hematologists and medical oncologists based in New York and have built a large following by translating complex cancer research into practical, understandable insights for physicians, patients, and caregivers. Through their educational platforms, podcasts, and social media channels, they help bridge the gap between cutting edge oncology research and everyday patient care. Today we'll discuss the challenges facing cancer education, the impact of pharmaceutical influence on medical conferences, the growing problem of information overload in medicine, and what patients need to know to become informed healthcare advocates. Please join me in welcoming Dr. Ruhit Ghassain and Dr. Ruhil Rahu Ghassain to the Transform Your Mind podcast. I almost want to have a live audience clap here.

SPEAKER_04 5:19

Well, Myrna, thank you so much for having us. Indeed, thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

You're very welcome. Yeah, I'm practicing for you when we have a live audience. Right, that's right. You clap for ourselves. Um, yes, all right. So, you know, I always like to set the table to, you know, let my listen audience understand, you know, your story and why you do what you do. So, what inspired both of you to pursue oncology as a specialty? Share your origin story. Did it come, you know, from health issues with families, health issues with yourself, or medical school? You just love the topic. How does it start?

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Yeah, let me take the lead because um Rohet is my older brother. But when it comes to being a physician, I am the senior one here. I started med school before Rohet did. And thankfully for us, there is no um heart-wrenching story of a family member going through or a personal uh story saying, hey, this is the reason why we jumped on. But from the get-go, going back to the medical school days, when I was doing my rotation, hematology, oncology, the field was moving fast, that special relationship that we could see our mentors build with patients in this position is how this all started. And then during my training for internal medicine, I was again pulled into the world of hematology, oncology. The fuel's moving fast. We're seeing more and more treatment options, providing that hope when our patients, these family members, are the most vulnerable is something that is very encouraging. So, again, from residency days, that led me to my training in fellowship. And I just got lucky, had the right mentors. Now being practicing for the last eight years, I am so lucky and fortunate to be doing what I do.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, well, that's great. Well, I'm glad you're right. You're very lucky that you didn't have, you know, most of the people I talk to in the show, it's either personal experience, you know, or you know, they were going through treatment and you know didn't have the right information and then they had to go and research it. That's normally the story. They had to go research themselves. And then when they learn something, then they start to share it. But it's, you know, it's uh, you know, people get into fields because they love it and also, you know, they have an affinity to some of the patients. And it's, I mean, this particular um field, it is such a it's such a human field because so many people that you're talking to are dealing with crisis in their life. And it's usually, if you get it wrong, it's like a death sentence. So it's you know, I'm glad that you know that you guys got into this um um field because it's it's a big one and it's a good one. And um, you know, the we're gonna talk about data and and cancer care and all these different things that you are helping to educate um uh, you know, people, like I said, you know, people would normally come in and have a story, a personal story, and then they have to go in the web and they have to go, you know, um uh research it. And this is where you guys shine because you're you are you know um dissecting that information for you know um your your your tribe as you want to call it.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

So that's a is it fair to say that uh your journey here was just because I was such a good role model and you wanted to be like me and you did this?

SPEAKER_03 9:04

You know, all our lives we have been just following each other. Either Rahul has followed my footsteps, and or in this case, I followed his footsteps. I was a computer engineer prior to getting into medicine. And for me, it's an easy answer. Why did I get into this? Well, I certainly followed Rahul's footsteps because we also had common mentors, common pathologists that we uh tied in. And which field you're seeing that is having approval of 40 to 50 new drug approvals each year. That's how exciting pathol like oncology is. And it's such a fun field because you're not getting to know the patient just from cardiology aspect of it or gastroenterology. You are getting to know the patient and their family in its entirety. Whether you are part of that special journey for six months or for 10 or 15 years, as we are seeing now. So, again, it's exciting to be part and make difference in such a meaningful way.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Well, that's beautiful. Now, for me, I don't know if anyone else is listening have the same question, but I understand oncology. Oncology is cancer treatment. What is the hematology? What does that do? It sounds like blood, but explain what that is.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Right. So, hematological aspect is blood related. That comes in two different flavors, whether it's benign, where it's not related to cancerous activity. That is, you're talking about iron deficiency, anemia, B12 deficiency. While the contrary part to that is the malignancy aspect of it, where you're seeing leukemia, lymphoma, multiple myeloma, all blood-related disorders.

SPEAKER_04 10:41

Okay. Roeth, can I jump on this here? I think that this idea of benign hematology and malignant hematology is also starting to move away. Because benign at times gets this false notion that, oh, it's not going to cause any trouble. It might not be malignancy in that non-malignant hematology, everything else, like sick as all our patients go through the crisis. Then you touched on iron deficiency anemia, a big quality of life issue. So even though historically we were using that term of benign hematology, a lot of times now we refer to that as a non-malignant hematology because some of our patients could still have a lot of clinical symptoms despite this being non-malignant.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Okay. Well, I'm glad I asked the question because yes, you know, um uh the the heading of the of your your field, you know, let me know there was something to do with blood, but I've never actually heard that term before. So I'm glad that I asked the question for me and for our listening audience. Now let's tying another piece that you guys do. You talk about conferences. Again, I'm really green about that. What does conferences have to do, or medical conferences or oncology conferences, have to do with um, well, I, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking that, okay, conferences is where doctors go to gain information, right? But I think that where you guys are coming from is that you're saying that the conference are steered, it's like the drugs are steered. So anyway, before I go and put my own in two cents, how does that affect anything?

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Yeah, but you're absolutely correct, Myrna, that when we're talking about conferences, this is where a lot of us, be it hematology or oncology, we're all coming together to learn from each other. This is where the science is presented. To give you an example, just last month, we came back from a big conference called ASCO, American Society of Clinical Oncology. Here, close to 10,000 studies were presented. On our end, when we're seeing these patients, we're coming back home saying, How am I going to change my practice now? How am I going to make all that data that was presented? What does it really mean for our patients? So at these conferences, we're learning, we're appreciating how the science is moving. And based on the data that's presented at these conferences, this is how a drug gets approved. This is how we're using these medications in our clinical practice day in, day out.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

And what I want to also add is that these conferences are not just related to medical hematologists or oncologists, which are administering chemotherapy, targeted therapies. These conferences also involve patients, patient advocates, industry partners, radiation oncology, surgical oncology, radiologists. So there are different facets to this where we are all combining our heads together, keeping in mind that patient in front of us.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

But I'm I'm gathering from your work that you there's an issue here. The way you're presenting it now, it sounds great. Is there an issue here or is there not?

SPEAKER_04 14:02

Yeah, no, I think the issue, big thing with the conferences here, ends up being the amount of data that's coming to us. And out of seven, eight, nine thousand studies, there's a lot of noise. What is important? We have to also keep devices in mind, be it who is sponsoring the study, where is it being done? A lot of the active drugs that are being available here in the US, is it available to the masses outside the US or even in smaller rural settings? So I think that the problem at core as a community medical oncologist ends up being the field is moving fast. That is really good. And that's good news for our patients. But now the challenge on our end as a medical oncologist is how do we keep up with all this? And again, I have to make sure the onus is on me while I'm practicing that I am keeping up with all this so that my patients are getting that best care close to home. So coming back to all this, I think the biggest problem, which is good news, ends up being how fast the field is moving. Roet, what what would you think the biggest challenge we see in this field?

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Oh, when you were talking about the Okay, all right, go ahead. No, no, go for it. Erna, please.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

No, go ahead, Rahit, but but before you do that, I maybe you can answer this question. When I was going through your literature, I came, I came to the conclusion, it could have been a wrong conclusion, that what you were saying is that these conferences, let's say that, like right. Well, I don't know any cancer treatment. I was gonna say GLP ones, but that's not for that. But let's let's let's take a look at something like GP ones, like GLP ones, which is what I know, is now the big thing. So if I were to go to a conference that, you know, whoever has the the new Vicovie pill or something, they're gonna be the one that they're gonna be pushing that drug, and the and the doctors are gonna be trying to sell that drug. So I got the info, I got the I came to the conclusion that at these conferences, whoever is sponsoring them is pushing their agenda, and that means that the doctors are gonna go back to their practice and push that drug. Is that happening? Or that's just my assumption.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Right now, that you bring up a very, very good point. I want to definitely acknowledge that because that's where a lot of the fear from the patient's aspect comes in as well. When one drug takes a leap, is it because of the data at hand or because of the financial aspect to it? And Rahul and I have been lucky enough to the mentors and the uh the people that we have interviewed, we claim to them the fact that this is going to be a neutral discussion. Because currently, for any current indication, that is stage one, stage two, stage three, stage four, each of the cancers have multiple treatments available. Now, if you have multiple treatments available for one particular cancer in that particular stage, how are you going to decide which is the right option? And that's where what we call patient-shared decision making ties in because you have to review the side effect profile, different dose management. Is it IV? Is it oral? Is it every week? Is it every three weeks? So at the end of the day, whenever we are going to any of these conferences, we are always putting that neutral hat on because that's what we are taking to our patients. And not even that, these conferences are mandated to keep the neutrality tight, even if they have sponsors. At the end of the day, when they're putting up such big conferences, there is their industry partners that they are tying in. But at the end of the day, the core aspect of the education is not anywhere close to touching any of the industry to influence their decision-making process.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Okay, awesome.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

So I'm glad we cleared that up. Can I jump on this? I do think that uh as humans, no matter what, we will always have our own internal biases. Very true. We'll always have financial biases, conflict of interest. I think that there are a few things in place to address that. Hey, show your conflict of interest, show your disclosures. But coming back to all this, I do think that no matter what, we still have our biases as we carry on these conversations. Rohit, I agree that having these neutral discussions back and forth is the way we are going to continue to educate masses. And again, of course, bias opinion. I think that the traction that Oncology Brothers has gained is because of that as well. If we're talking about XYZ drug, we're also talking about how to manage the side effects. But how is the field moving? Let's keep that patient at the center of all this. What does it mean for that patient? What would I do for myself? What would I do for my parents?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

That's good. That's good. So what I'm gathering is that um you go to the conferences and you get all this data, and then you come back, and then when you see a patient, you are able to access, you know, which one of this can help them. And uh it's not like, again, I mean, I I'm coming in from bias because from what I know, right? You know, you see these movies where the drug companies are lobbying, right? And you go to the doctor, and the doctor is handing you stuff that the the drug person comes in and give them for free, and he's like handing it out. So in your particular case, because cancer is so different and it's whatever, you're not biased by I know whoever's handing out. You're looking, you're patient-centered. Um, and that's good.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Because it all ties to the data. And for example, just to give you something that was recently presented at ASCO received standing owation, which was direct sonara said for pancreatic cancer. If one had the disease has progressed in frontline setting, this made the headlines on CNN, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, name it. So here the bias is because the other options that we have are not good at all. So even industries pushing it, we are hanging on to it so tight because we wish this also yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

I get you, I get you. Yeah, I get you. Because you know what? I mean, again, coming from my own biases, I've always heard that pancreatic cancer is a death sentence. You don't survive it. So, and there's it's a beautiful thing now that someone has presented something that maybe gives some people more time. I don't know if it can be cured, but gives some people more time. So that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

And um, that's that's right, Marina. That sadly enough, even today, metastatic pancreatic cancer outcomes are very poor. The drug that Rohit is alluding to took six months of overall survival to 12, 13 months. It's not a home run, but at least now, because of this, our patients are.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

I think I'm so good. I just said that.

SPEAKER_04 20:44

Exactly. So I do think that that is where the field's headed. Let's make sure that our interventions are going to buy more time, but let's also make sure it's quality of life. Our drugs have side effects. We need to get better in managing those. Picking that right drug for that right patient is how we're going to advance the field.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Well, that's beautiful. All right. Summer is all about keeping things simple, comfortable, and stylish. That's why I love investing in timeless pieces that I can wear again and again. And that's why I love Quince. They make elevated essentials using premium materials like European linen, organic cotton, and washable silk without the traditional retail markup. Quince's 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops are pieces you'll reach for all summer long. They're lightweight, effortless to style, and start at just $32. I recently paired a blue and white linen pants with a white linen top. I was impressed with the perfect fit, and the casual luxury had everyone complimenting me on my look. Every good outfit needs accessories. Quince's beautiful 14 carat gold jewelry adds a subtle finish and touch. Simple hoops or delicate chains make even the most effortless outfit feel intentional. Make your summer wardrobe feel easier. Go to quince.com slash T Y M for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's q-u-in-c-e.com slash t-m for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash T Y M. Support for today's episode comes from Square, the business platform that helps sellers become neighborhood favorites. So whether you're gearing up for a busy season or just trying to keep up with everyday demand, Square keeps your business running smoothly, from payments and POS to online orders, inventory, staff, and more, all in one place. So you can focus on your customers and not your to-do list. I've been using Square in my own business for years as a real estate professional and as a coach. Square makes it easy for small businesses to accept credit card payments. I also love shopping at the farmers market and seeing the vendors accept payments with their Square devices. Square brings payments, PLS, inventory, staffing, and online sales together in one system. So business owners don't have to juggle a bunch of tools. You can sell online, in-store, or both and customize your setup as your business evolves. So Square and our offers three clear plans: free, plus, and premium. So you can pick the tools you need and grow into more when you're ready. Square helps you run your business more smoothly, bringing payments, operations, and insights together in one place. So you're ready for whatever is next. Right now, listeners can get up to $200 off Square Hardware when you sign up at Square.com slash go slash transform. That's SQUARE.com slash G-O slash transform. Get started with Square and build a setup that works the way you do. So that is one of the headlines that's come out, you know, pancreatic cancer. Is there anything else that's um that are some breakthroughs today that um that helps, you know, patient outcomes? Anything you guys want to highlight?

SPEAKER_03 24:54

Well, I'd say the story of ADC's antibody drug conjugates, it's just a different way of delivering targeted therapy, which is a form of a chemotherapy. It's a new way of administering chemotherapy, essentially. And here, what we are talking, some of these drugs increasing the survival benefit, doubling that to close to about three years from 15 months. And that too, particularly in metastatic or stage four bladder cancer space. Similar story worked out in colon cancer for BRAF inhibitors. I don't want to use too much lingo here, but these are targeted therapies which are adding doubling off overall survival. And this is in stage four setting where you call it death sentence, but here you're talking about three, four, five, and six years down the line.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

Can I highlight three things here? To me, one, Roy, you touched on that colon cancer. The important part here is nowadays, we're able to see if the cancer is driven by a certain mutation and target that. That's not always the case, but in the cases where we are able to see that, that's very important. Example, colon cancer, lung cancer. There are drugs like ulceratinid where we can find that mutation and go attack it. And then the story around immunotherapy. I think a lot of our patients come into our clinic asking, hey, when can I get immunotherapy? That's not the right option for everyone. But for that selected few, we are seeing that potentially they can have a very durable response. Similar story for another disease, blood cancer, multiple myeloma, with certain interventions. We're starting to use the word cure. Are we there? No, but the point is we're headed there. So I do think that these advances are coming back with our patients living longer and perhaps better.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Nice. I like it. Wow. You know, you're um, you know, I have a friend of mine that she was telling me that her husband started losing weight and he lost like five pounds. I would not be alarmed, but my husband lost five pounds. Somehow she said he started losing weight, five pounds, ten pounds, and then they went to the doctor, and um the doctor wanted to to to you know pass it off as something because I to me I wouldn't be alarmed at that. Um, but anyway, she asked him to do a test, came back, stage four stomach cancer, and in eight weeks he was dead. So um uh when we're talking here about some 15 months to three years, I'm thinking that's great, but I don't know. Um is that good news?

SPEAKER_03 27:40

Right. So from so the story, I'm so sorry to hear that story. Uh because at the end of the day, certainly weight loss by itself is certainly one aspect is alarming, but it's usually tied in with other constitutional symptoms. That is, one is losing weight, but also has decrease in appetite, increased fatigue, the activities that they were able to do, they're not able to do that anymore. But whenever we are finding these stage four cancers, some of the screening modalities that at least we have access to colonoscopy for colon cancer, breast cancer, mammography, ultrasound, or pap smears for oncological cancer, lung cancer, for low dose. We should really avail this. I want the audience listening in, please, please, please tie in with your primary care physicians to make sure that you are being screened for the cancer that at least we can detect for unfortunately for pancreatic cancer, there are no screening guidelines. If you have family history, that certainly pertains to someone to look into that aspect.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Okay, all right. Well, yeah, I mean, like I said, this is this is good work. So I'm glad that you guys are into it because cancer, what is the statistic now on cancer? It's it's a big one, right? Is it what statistics as far as people that are getting cancers and the at least in the older population?

SPEAKER_04 28:59

Do you have a statistic? Yes, I I don't have a number, but unfortunately, this is a common theme. The common um cancers that we're running into breast cancer, colon cancer, lung cancer, prostate cancer, these are the common things that we run into. And again, Roh had brought up the screening guidelines are there just for selected few. And hope with that screening is can we find it sooner? Can we find it earlier before it's stage four? So that's the idea. If we find it sooner, in a majority of the cases, we're trying to go for cure. We're being aggressive, but we're trying to go for a cure. When it is stage four, or another term that we tend to use is metastatic, saying it started at one place but has moved to other parts of the body. Yeah, in those settings, our interventions often are to control the cancer rather than cure the cancer. Um, so again, this ends up being a problem that's very common. I don't have an exact number of each one of them saying these are the stats.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Yeah, right, right, right, right. Yes. Well, that's yeah, because what I was trying to get at was the fact that cancer still, you know, is one of the leasing leading costs of debt. And I mean, there's a um one in four or something like that, or it was one in ten. That's the type of number I was going at. But but yeah, it's it's um the good news is that um I'm glad that there's these conferences and these things that are happening and people are living longer. I have a a personal friend of mine that's been living with um prostate cancer for 10 years or more, and he's fine. And it's stage four. So I mean, uh there are there are things that are happening that can help you prolong your life, and that's that's that's that's that's a good thing. So I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm glad. I thought I was normal until I started taking a probiotic. Better health really does start in the gut. And that's why I want to tell you about Physician's Choice 60 billion probiotic. What I love about Physician's Choice 60 billion probiotic is that it's not just one strain, it's 10 different strains, all in one simple daily capsule. It helps promote a healthy balance of gut bacteria, supports digestive health, and contributes to overall wellness. It has acid-resistant capsules, which ensures the probiotics survive your stomach acid and reach your gut intact. It's also the number one best-selling probiotic on Amazon with more than 140,000 reviews. Best of all, it's made in the USA and backed by a 60-day money-back guarantee, no questions asked. So if you're ready to be intentional about your gut health, go to Amazon or physicianschoice.com and use code PCPodcast10 for 10% off your entire order. That is PCPodcast10 for 10% off. Best results after a month of use. So invest in your gut, subscribe and save up to 40% off your order. You can also find Physicians Choice at all of your favorite retailers. Um so what are if if you know someone is listening and they're maybe at a stage one, two, and before we get to the critical stage, or they're just being diagnosed, what are some of the things that they should ask when they're setting up treatment and they want to become the CEO of their of their treatment program, is there something that they should be asking, or they should turn it all over to the doctor's wisdom?

SPEAKER_04 33:03

Right, I'll take that. I think that it's always partnership. The patient is at the center of all this, they are at the driving seat here. I think any cancer, what we need to appreciate and want to make sure that our patients are aware of what type of cancer, what stage, is there any mutation that's driving this? What are my treatment options? And importantly, when we are jumping on that treatment, what benefit can I expect? If we were not to treat this, what's the outcome? If we were to treat this, what am I looking at? And importantly, what are the side effects I'm buying? What's that cost that I'm going to pay to buy that extra time? What's my quality of life going to be? So I think those are the things that I'm hoping that I'm seeing a patient day in, day out. That is what they're walking away with.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

I'd say two things. Just to reiterate some of the things that Rahu mentioned. Side effects is an important key aspect. So please, please, please educate yourself on this because that will impact your quality of life. That's not just impacting you, that's affecting your friends, your family, everyone. Second, anyone who gets diagnosed with cancer, I want to harp one point here. That is, check for that particular mutation. Now we are in this era of personalized medicine where we are just not throwing chemotherapy at everyone. There are some targeted therapies that we can personalize to, depending on what the cancer is expressing in terms of mutations and biomarkers, and appropriate testing needs to be done. So ask your physician that do you qualify for targeted therapy at all?

SPEAKER_01 34:49

I like that. I like that. I was just this watching a movie recently where this girl um was diagnosed for the second time with ovarian cancer. And when they found it the second time, I'm sorry, it was at a stage four, and uh the doctor said that she can get treatment, but there's no guarantee that um that it would do anything. And uh she and her husband made the decision that she wasn't going to waste the nine months or whatever it if they give her and not take a treatment. So what you are just saying is very important. So she went in, the doctor said, Hey, you can mess up your life and have this poor quality for nine months, and then the cancer might not even go away. And and then what do you've got? You've got wasted nine months. So she decided not to take the treatment and just enjoyed her whatever time they give. So that's good questions to ask. And it's a lot of people go with that decision, especially when it's a second cancer or something. Um, but yeah, so good information right there.

SPEAKER_04 35:58

Can can I jump on that? I think that the big message here is not all cancers are made equally, they all act differently. Here, the example that we were using was ovarian cancer, very different than early stage breast cancer, very different than potentially a little more aggressive non-small cell lung cancer or a different spectrum of lung cancer, small cell lung cancer. It behaves differently, the outcomes are different. Coming back to what Rohit was saying, I think it's important for us to appreciate is there any mutation that's driving it? What stage, what type, what can I expect from my interventions here?

SPEAKER_03 36:39

And I also want to just summarize, mention one thing that even with the chemotherapy, where we that is the only choice that we have at hand outside of targeted therapy or immunotherapy, please don't just completely discard this because we have seen stories where some family member went through the side effects from the chemotherapy, but that does not apply to you because now we are much better in handling the side effects of the chemotherapy. Not every chemotherapy is the same. Not every chemotherapy causes hair loss, oral ulcers, or nausea and vomiting. So everything is very personalized now, and we are a lot better equipped with other supportive medications to handle some of those side effects.

unknown 37:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah, yeah, I agree. You know, on a personal note, my my sister has non had non-Hotchkins lymphoma, and um, she didn't want to take chemotherapy, wanted to do some kind of um holistic thing. And I said, Listen, girl, because she was scared of uh the what she is seeing here, but she's a nurse and she's seen how destructive chemotherapy can be. And she didn't want to go through that. And I says, Listen, you want to live? I think you should take the chemotherapy. And even if your body, you know, I my my advice to her is God breaks you down to build you back up. And you know, the she did not have a bad experience under chemotherapy. She lost like 30 pounds or something, and and now she's doing well, right? But but those cancers are are are I I think when I was reading it up, there's about a 55 to 60 percent heal rate. They're not yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:21

Yeah, even with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, different tumors that fall into this bucket, but outcomes can be really good. Can I just uh quickly comment on that holistic approach? I just want to put that out there. Just because something's being holistic or natural does not make it safe. Unfortunately, our patients are very vulnerable and they get sold into many different things. Why don't you try this diet? Why don't you try this natural medication? And by the time we see them, the disease has progressed.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

I know there's so many cases of that. Steve Jobs is one of them.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

That is absolutely correct.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

That's what I told her. You're gonna waste time on this holistic thing, and then your cancer is gonna be. That's exactly what I told her. I agree with you 100%. You know, anyway, yes.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

So yeah, no, I'm so glad that she decided to move forward and she's doom well. That is very encouraging to hear.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Yeah, that is that is pretty good. All right. So, are there any significant disparities in access to cutting-edge cancer treatment? Um, again, sometimes the insurances or whatever. Well, is that what we're talking about here? Are we talking about payment? Are we talking about some treatments are already available in Europe or something? Or does everybody have access to all treatments in the United States?

SPEAKER_03 39:46

I'd say there are multiple aspects to what you're bringing up, Myrna. Insurance is one aspect, which is an unfortunate one because no one should be deprived of what the standard of care therapy is. But the fact of the matter is that is one aspect, unfortunately. Now, the other aspect is that even when that access to when you go out to the developing countries, that access to some of the most novel therapies is lacking. And Raul, you can recall that trip to Uganda that you took. Even the access to medical oncologists, the entire country, possibly at such limited oncologists available, support staff. Even here in the United States, when you go out to the rural places, patients cannot travel out to the motherships to get access to clinical trials, which might be a groundbreaking like uh treatment available. So there are some of these challenges that do exist, which is unfortunate, but this is being battled where uh drug companies, universities, or countries, government itself is making that access visible at some of these rural places. Or not even that. There are sort of grants that are available for the the patients to travel out from the rural community out to the cities or urban areas to access some of these groundbreaking treatments.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

Well, that's good. That's good. My saying to this is uh your postal code, your zip code should not dictate your outcomes. Unfortunately, that is still the case. And could it be insurance, could it be financial, uh, could it be access, distance being one of them? Uh, could it be racial disparities? Could it be gender disparities? These are all real things that we run into day in, day out. And the outcomes are different. They are different. Um, and I think that the best way to address is more conversations around it, appreciating that there are differences so that we can attack it. Just even here locally within the US, I think that out in the community settings, we need to do better by having clinical trials there. There are new drugs that are coming out for Rohit. We were talking about this lymphoma, multiple myeloma. There are interventions like CARTs that are only available at a large hospital or institution. It might not be available in rural Kentucky settings. For that, patient has to travel. Now that's an added burden for the patient, for the family members. So, Myrna, I think that the disparities exist. These conversations need to happen around that so that we can, again, make sure that all our patients, regardless of their gender, their race, where they live, they should have access to this.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. That's a beautiful thing. Awesome, awesome. So I love the work you guys are doing. And um this is this is really good work. So tell our listeners where they can connect with you, your website, what you what services you offer. Um, I know you're in New York, but you must have a global audience or a global reach, or there's no reason to do podcasts. So we're in like 180 countries. So um uh tell our listeners how they can connect with you on social media, your website, um access to clinical trials, any any information you want to leave.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

So I'm at Roswell Park Comprehensive Cancer Center in Buffalo, New York. Rahul is at Wilmot Cancer Institute in Rochester, New York. Uh, we are both part of the academic institutes, but working as a community medical oncologist where we are treating all sorts of cancer. In terms of accessing us from our website, OnkBrothers, o ncbrothers.com, we have podcasts which are available on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple podcasts. And at the end of the day, what we are trying to do is bridge this gap between community where the most amount of patients get treatment versus where all the research happens. That's the academic institute. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Okay, so your podcast is also the Ankh Brothers?

SPEAKER_03 43:57

That is correct. Oncology Brothers, where that ONC. Short form comes in, but yes, Oncology Brothers.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Okay, awesome. And what's your social media handles? Do you have different ones or together?

SPEAKER_03 44:08

There it is at Onc Brothers, O N C Brothers, on social media, particularly X, where a lot of this uh sparking tumor board sort of discussion with interaction with patients, patient advocates, radiational college, or basically everyone around the world can get access to.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

I love it. I love it. I love it. All right. Well, as we wrap up, um, this was a great conversation. Thank you guys for joining us today and for the incredible work you're doing to make cancer education more accessible and understandable. One of the biggest takeaways from our conversation is that knowledge alone isn't enough. We need clarity, we need context, we need trusted voices who can help us navigate increasingly complex healthcare decisions. So, whether you're a patient, a caregiver, a healthcare professional, or simply someone interested in understanding the future of medicine, I hope today's conversation empowered you to ask better questions, think critically about your health information, and become a more informed advocate for yourself and for your loved ones. Transformers, thank you for spending time with us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who could benefit from this conversation. I will have a snippet um of my conversation to the Oncology Brothers on the show page, which is myhopes.us. I will link out to their YouTube channel, their um website, and also social media handles so you can get access to this information because this is, you know, I'm I'm sure that's someone that's listening that either you have a personal experience, someone in your family needs to know this, or you're just gathering information. I have done a lot of um episodes on cancer because I want to know this stuff. You know what I mean? I I want to have knowledge. So you might just be someone that wants to have knowledge and have it, you know, handy for whenever the situation may arrive, whether you personally or someone that you love that you can you can help. So I love having these conversations. So um, Rohit and Rahul, any last words for Erlison Audience before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_04 46:27

Myrna, thank you so much for having us. Anyone tuning in, again, make sure you are the charge of your decisions. Make sure you're informed, make sure that that decision is right for you when it comes to cancer treatment.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Thanks again, Myrna. This is appreciate the the effort that you're putting in to take this out all to masses. So the message for your audience: make sure you're staying on top of your screening modalities because we can cure if caught early. And also targeted mutations, because now in the world of personalized medicine, make sure you question that to your physicians. Thank you so much again, Myrna.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

You're very welcome. That was a new word for me, it targeted. Um, but I know that because chemotherapy is not the evil word it used to be because people were scared of that. It was an evil word, it was worse than the cancer itself. But um, now it's getting better. You're right. They've got anti nausea drugs, they've got, like you said, targeted. Maybe it's it's it's not as bad. So I'm glad that they're they're softening that blow. And um, so that is good. All right, guys. Well, listen, thank you, um uh the oncology brothers, rohit and rahul for being on the show. Um, I loved our conversation. I came away with new knowledge, and that's important. So, yeah, um uh if you guys um you know found any of this interested, definitely um share it, connect um uh with um Rahul and and Rohit and um you know learn about this stuff, you know, knowledge is power. All right, so remember transformation begins with awareness, and every new insight has the power to change your life. So keep listening, keep transforming your mind until next time. Namaste, and thanks again for being on the show.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

All right, thank you again. Thanks again.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

All right, bye bye. Thank you, thank you, thank you.